EXCLUSIVE: Big Happenings at DirecTV

[Stargazer]

I am around 40-50 miles away from any television stations with hilly terrain and lots of trees.

 

[Ramy]

Well Antennaweb.org says I live about 30 miles away from the tower and that may be true but I still can't get anything where I live. Too many hills and trees in the way, I live in a deep valley.

 

[DaveO]

That is the same situation that I have here. I know if I dont pick up the analog stations with an antenna then I definitely will not pick up the HD signal when it is being transmitted in low power.

That may not be accurate. I have Channel 22 in Springfield, MA which has three digital chanels (22-1, -2, and -3) which are low power. I live in very hilly terrain and have never been able to get analog 22 with a 150" double boom UHF/VHF combo antenna with rotor and amplifier, that is on my second story roof. All I could see was a terrible, unwatchable picture that faded in and out with each plane that passed nearby. (I am near a local A/c beacon)

I got My 811 from Dish this month and for the heck of it went looking for DT channels. Wow, 22 digital crystal clear, with a 72-75% signal.

Who woulda thunk?? So, don't arbitrarily count out getting digital channels just because you can't get the analog.

Dave

 

[Stargazer]

Do you live in a valley or up on a hill? That can make a big difference too. Some that live up on a hill can pick up the signal pretty good even from a distance but it is just the opposite for those that live in the valleys or beside a hill.

 

[Alan Gordon]

Who woulda thunk?? So, don't arbitrarily count out getting digital channels just because you can't get the analog.

I hope that's the case with my local Fox and NBC. I believe the towers they're broadcasting their digital signals from is around 15 miles away from me. I can find out for sure in a couple of months. I doubt I can get my local ABC and CBS as they are some 70+ miles from me...

~Alan

 

[Tyralak]

Hmmm. It would make sense for D* to offer local HD in the major markets if they are going to compete with cable. Even though you can get HD via OTA, most people don't want to bother. Cable systems in the major TV markets are already offering the HD locals, so a "no antenna" solution is more attractive, and it probably makes TIVO functionality easier. More bandwidth required, obviously, but for major markets like NY, LA, Chi, etc. it would make sense.

John C.

You know, there's a physical limit to the amount of data you can squeeze onto a carrier wave. Where do they think they're going to get the bandwith to do this? They barely have room for all the locals as it is, and they have to compress the heck out of things in order to get it all to fit. Not near as bad as E*, but still overcompressed.

 

[Tyralak]

Of course, you might lose the Bingo channel, unless Rupe decides to pick it up!

~Alan

Heaven forbid.

 

[Tyralak]

Doesn't DirecTV have an issue with thinking that it is OK to compress HD signals? I really would love my locals in HD via satellite, but if it means compression, well that isn't really HD now, is it? At best it means what you used to see you can now see in 16x9.

However, if they can find a way to get the major networks in Pure HD via satellite, I'll jump to DirecTV in an instant.

I agree. That's a major concern of mine. Seeing how they treat many SD channels, the HD channels may end up becoming "HD-Lite". Kind of a pseudo HD, that they just hope you get used to and don't remember what REAL HD was like. That is until you stitch channels to an OTA HD station.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

I think much of the new stuff will require a 2 dish solution.

 

[jgpeacock]

I just received a call from D* offering a 3 room deal with a free surround sound system. Anyone know anything about it?

 

[EdV]

To put the bandwidth issue into perspective, realize that each satellite carries only around 24 ku band transponders. A single transponder can carry only one HD channel using D*'s older qpsk modulation, or two using E*'s newer 8psk modulation.

If a typical local market has 4 channels, D* providing local HD to just 6 cities would consume the entire bandwidth of a single satellite. And they only have three satellites in the main 101-119 slots. So HD locals in the traditional sense is out of the question for the foreseeable future.

However, there's still room for E* or D* to cut a deal for HD carriage in ABC and NBC owned and operated station areas and would require only one or two transponders. And that may in fact may be what D* is alluding to in the letter when they mentioned more local HD. But like the CBS HD deal, it would only be available to fewer than one out of three customers. But for those of you in the following areas, there is hope.

ABC O&O's
------------------
New York,Chicago,Los Angeles,San Francisco,Houston,Philadelphia,Fresno,Raleigh/Durham,Flint,Toledo

NBC O&O's
------------------
New York,Los Angeles,Chicago,Philadelphia,Washington D.C.,Dallas,Miami,San Diego,Hartford,Raleigh,Columbus,Providence,Birmingham


I don't know about D*, but E*'s direction for local HD reception is OTA with an antenna. Last year they quietly offered the OTA module for free to any existing 6000 HD receiver owners. The new 811 and 921 receivers have the module integrated. And in the recent Chats, whenever Charlie mentions the integrated OTA capability, he always emphasizes that it will allow you to get your HD locals for FREE. Of course he carefully avoids the fact that many of you are in areas that cannot receive those signals.

 

[Alan Gordon]

To put the bandwidth issue into perspective, realize that each satellite carries only around 24 ku band transponders. A single transponder can carry only one HD channel using D*'s older qpsk modulation, or two using E*'s newer 8psk modulation.

If a typical local market has 4 channels, D* providing local HD to just 6 cities would consume the entire bandwidth of a single satellite. And they only have three satellites in the main 101-119 slots. So HD locals in the traditional sense is out of the question for the foreseeable future.

Right, however, they have already filed to use the new SpaceWay satellites for new technologies such as local HDTV. There has been plenty of talk on DBSForums.com and AVSForum.com about the new SpaceWay satellites, but rumor has it, they could (not saying they will) carry 1500 HDTV channels on the combined three satellites. The first SpaceWay satellite is launching this Summer!

However, there's still room for E* or D* to cut a deal for HD carriage in ABC and NBC owned and operated station areas and would require only one or two transponders. And that may in fact may be what D* is alluding to in the letter when they mentioned more local HD.

I agree, I also believe this is what they were alluding to in the letter.

I don't know about D*, but E*'s direction for local HD reception is OTA with an antenna. Last year they quietly offered the OTA module for free to any existing 6000 HD receiver owners. The new 811 and 921 receivers have the module integrated.

All DirecTV Hi-Def receivers have integrated OTA capabilities.

And in the recent Chats, whenever Charlie mentions the integrated OTA capability, he always emphasizes that it will allow you to get your HD locals for FREE. Of course he carefully avoids the fact that many of you are in areas that cannot receive those signals.

That is correct, and that is why many people will be VERY happy with their HD locals when they become available, and I'm sure it will be years before my HD locals come online considering my SD locals are not even online yet, but I will definately be going "YIPPIE!!!" when they do!


~Alan

 

[SlicerMDM]

they could (not saying they will) carry 15,000 HDTV channels on the combined three satellites. ~Alan

I think you have the wrong number of 0s ... I think it was 150,000 HD channels! No wait, 15,000,000! Yea, that's the ticket!

Actually, the real number was about 1500 HD channels. But who's counting. At any rate, it's a LOT of room for HDTV!!

It's really exciting seeing where D* is moving these days.

 

[Alan Gordon]

I think you have the wrong number of 0s ... I think it was 150,000 HD channels! No wait, 15,000,000! Yea, that's the ticket!

Actually, the real number was about 1500 HD channels. But who's counting. At any rate, it's a LOT of room for HDTV!!

You're right. Already changed it on my post. I was thinking that sounded like too many...LOL!!!


~Alan

 

[mike123abc]

The 1500 channel was calculated based on the projected max data transfer rate of the spaceway satellites. There is still a ton of issues that would have to be solved before they could be used for reliable delivery of HD LIL.

If Ku band were to be used for HD LIL to all markets it would take a lot too:

Assuming they use spot beams and really make them high powered they could probably get upwards of 53 mbit/sec or 3 channels of HDTV average bandwith of 17.7mbit/sec and just hope that all three do not peak simultaniously to 19.2 or there will be some loss of resolution (8PSK 7/8FEC 22msymbols).

Assume they can get an average of 5x reuse on transponders. Each transponder frequency could then deliver 15 HDTV LIL via spots. This would mean that they would have to have 100 transponders to deliver all the 1500 or so LIL. Each satellite has 32 transponders, so they would need about 4 satellite slots.

DIRECTV has the most advanced spot beam satellites with 44 spots on 6 transponders. There is a limit to the number of spots/satellite because of all the power. Lets just round this out to 5 satellites/slot. With 4 slots and 5 satellites/slot they would need 20 satellites at a cost of 200mil+ each. We are looking at a $4billion+ price tag. Not to mention the need of in orbit spares and satellite replacements.

I would believe that it probably would not be done via Ku because of the costs mentioned above. Now if a new technology like the spaceway satellite works, it could be a big breakthrough.

 

[ramcm7]

I am not a tech expert, but I am sure there are plenty here who are and could address this possibility.

Could D* "seamlessly" integrate local HD's into the service? Install HD OTA ant along with sat dish; integrate local HD's into program guide; and allow DVR recording of SD & HD D* signals, along with OTA HD signals? Does the new HD DTiVo do all this? Does the SHVIA or other legislation that covers LIL also cover HD signals? If not, could D* then offer the OTA locals where available and offer distant nets for networks not served in that area, and not run afoul of the Waiver process?

If this is the case, all D* needs to do then is offer deals on HD receivers and/or HD monitors (i.e. E* HDTV in a box) and we'll have a nice little offering war (price and product) on our hands. (I have been drooling over the new HD TiVo for the past week or so, and this has led me to researching HD sets.) Let's hope the sat consumer wins.

 

[Alan Gordon]

Could D* "seamlessly" integrate local HD's into the service? Install HD OTA ant along with sat dish; integrate local HD's into program guide;

DirecTV already does this to a certain extent, the only problems is some people's stations are too far away. I suspect I'll probably be able to pick up my FOX and NBC just fine, but my CBS and ABC is more than likely too far away to pick up with an antenna. I have tried to get waivers for the SD versions of CBS and been turned down, I currently have ABC, but Pegasus recently sent me a letter telling me my request for a waiver from ABC and FOX were turned down (which I didn't ask them to in the first place), so I may never get to watch ABC or CBS in HD for years until HD starts making money for the affiliates to go to full power. I'm sure a lot of other people are in the same boat. If you live in a rural area, HD locals are important.


~Alan

 

[Juan]

Maybe Charlie jealous because Rupert laid more people off :shocked :shocked

 

[Darin]

...each satellite carries only around 24 ku band transponders. A single transponder can carry only one HD channel using D*'s older qpsk modulation, or two using E*'s newer 8psk modulation.

If a typical local market has 4 channels, D* providing local HD to just 6 cities would consume the entire bandwidth of a single satellite. And they only have three satellites in the main 101-119 slots. So HD locals in the traditional sense is out of the question for the foreseeable future.

No, each Ku band DBS satellite carries 32 transponders. Depending on the encoding and other variables, you can get between 30-50Mbps usable out of one transponder. DirecTV is currently running mostly with two HD channels per transponder. Dish is also moving towards stat-muxing HD. As others have mentioned, the Spaceway satellites will likely be used for HD LIL. While the 1500 channels is a theoretical number simply based on total aggregate bandwidth capacity, it's moot anyway. Even if the number is only half that, it's still plenty to provide HD locals for most or even all of the major markets. There's only something like 1500 channels period. The number of those that are HD is quite a bit smaller.

Between that, and their untapped FSS capacity, I really don't think you need to worry about their bandwidth. Just watch over the next year or two. I think you'll see that the "we can't compete with cable unless we merge" line was just a bunch of BS.