Emergency Retailer Chat Recap - Aug 28th

The code that they will be rewriting is code that has been found in violation of TIVO's code going all the way back to the original Dish DVRs. And it may be code in several critical areas.

I think this will be a LOT more new code than the typical update.
 
Blatant disregard?????

GaryPen said:
The fact that FOX O&O's are the only holdout is such a blatant disregard of the FTC rules that News Corp was supposed to abide by in order to purchase D* in the first place. I guess it was only a matter of time before they used their weight as content providers to screw E* and give D* an unfair advantage.
We got hosed over so many times by E* turning on distant stations to customers of ours that in some cases you could actually SEE the CBS local tower. Or guys switching distant network packages every weekend to watch a particular football game without buying the NFL package. NO sympathy for poor ole Charlie here. Playing by the rules should not be considered an unfair advantage!:eek:
Fishnuts2
 
Neutron said:
Everyone will have to go through qualifying for Distants, even if you have them already.

Yes, that we know. Probably no one really knows till it happens, but exactly what will determine that you qualify. Many have Distants legally - had them before the locals were up on satellite and live in a white area. Currently if you live in a white area but Dish has your locals you cannot get distants. The law allowed you to keep them unless you ever got rid of them. That is the question for many of us.
 
BFG said:
what part is infringing anyways?
I think it is the record one show while watching another previously recorded. The thing that really gets me about it is that is essentially what you do with your computer all the time. It's like downloading a video file while watching the one you downloaded right before it.
 
so how does everyone else get away with doing that? did they just pay the patent fee?
 
With the distant channels thing... i think the BIGGER picture is with Distant HD Channels. If charlie was to have to shut all DNS off Dish might have been SOL on getting customers distant HD channels. IMHO
 
Fishnuts2 said:
We got hosed over so many times by E* turning on distant stations to customers of ours that in some cases you could actually SEE the CBS local tower. Or guys switching distant network packages every weekend to watch a particular football game without buying the NFL package. NO sympathy for poor ole Charlie here. Playing by the rules should not be considered an unfair advantage!:eek:
Fishnuts2

And just how are E* customers supposed to buy the NFL package, when it is on Directv?
 
It would not make since for Dish to pay 100,000,000 if a lot/most of the subscribers would lose their ability to the distant networks.
 
You mean to tell me that if a show is recording we will be denied access to the previously recorded events? This SUCKS!!!!! You would have to have two DVR's in order to have the ability to do what you could do with one previously and that still wouldn't work.

What would happen if you are already watching a previously recorded show and a show is about ready to record? Would it shut off that show right then while the show records or would you end up not being able to record that show that is wanting to come on? You would have to create a schedue of when you can actually watch a previously recorded show. This is NOT going to work for DVR owners. I can see a lot of software glitches as well. This is going to SUCK BIG TIME if this is how it is going to be. You might as well have no DVR if this is how it is going to be. I can see Directv being VERY busy switching customers from Dish to Directv and I will have to switch too if this is going to be the case. Our DVR's are not going to be worth anything either with that P.O.S. software. Dish would have to keep it delayed in the courts for years or pay up or lose their customers.

Now this might not be so bad if they would be allowed to record something on tuner two on the second tv output and watch something on tuner one on the first tv output on the dual tv output receivers. The thing is they would have to prevent that from working for those that put it from dual user mode into single user mode and 721's are all the time in single user mode by default since it only has one tv output.
 
HookedOnTV said:
I think it is the record one show while watching another previously recorded. The thing that really gets me about it is that is essentially what you do with your computer all the time. It's like downloading a video file while watching the one you downloaded right before it.

I agree, it is just like that... if it is "record one show while watching another previously recorded" that will be removed dish dvrs will be severely handicapped. I use that all of the time today.
 
This could get interesting with NewsCorp/Fox. I read an article about this settlement this afternoon which a FOX spokesman said "We have no interest in settling with Echostar. We have been victorious in the courts and usually the winning party does not settle". Time for the FTC to step in and slap Murdoch for not following agreed upon rules.
 
The part of the DVR functionality that was ruled to be in violation of Tivo's patent was the "watch one show while recording another" function, as several people had pointed out. But it's more complicated than that. Specifically, the patent describes a way of dynamically juggling two data streams in memory (the show being recorded and the show being watched) with only one processor and one hard drive. Tivo's patent describes this as a way to keep hardware costs down.

So, theoretically, if you built a DVR with two separate sets of processors, memory chips and hard drives, you could duplicate Tivo functionality without violating the patent. Perhaps there are other simpler ways to do this with one processor and one memory chip and still not violate the patent, but I have not studied the language in the patent so I don't know.

Now we really don't know what Dish's engineers could be cooking up. It's reasonable to assume that whatever they come up with will be a compromise of some sort (ie. the DVRs won't work as well or they will loose functionality). I'm hopefull that the 622 can be spared, because it's more powerful than the other DVRs, having three tuners and a CPU capable of juggling all that data at once. That leads me to believe the engineers have more flexibility. And, if I'm not mistaken, wasn't the Tivo lawsuit filed before the 622 came out? If so, perhaps Dish anticipated this and added some design features to address it, just in case.

In any event, I would look at the software modifications as a "stopgap measure" just in case. In otherwords, it's their last resort option if legal avenues dont' work. The engineers probably don't even know if they CAN create a workable software solution yet, but I'm sure they are trying. Hopefully it will never be needed though.
 
More customers have DVR than DNS so i guess if it comes down to it charlie will handle it just as easy. He will just write a check if he has too.
 
I wonder if the Dish/Tivo suit affects the ATT/Dish Homezone receiver? It shouldn't, as it was designed and manufactured by 2Wire for ATT. But, it undoubtedly uses some Dish technology. Or, it wouldn't be able to receive Dish programming. Hopefully, it is only the encryption. (Which, of course, Dish licenses from nagra.)
 
The DVR part is worth LOTS LOTS LOTS more than the DNS part. The DVR holds a LOT better future than the DNS does. When all local markets will be available eventually DNS will probably be outlawed. Maybe this is one reason why all of them have not been offered yet.
 
Chris Walker said:
I read an article about this settlement this afternoon which a FOX spokesman said "We have no interest in settling with Echostar. We have been victorious in the courts and usually the winning party does not settle". Time for the FTC to step in and slap Murdoch for not following agreed upon rules.
Let me see if I can get this right...

You've been complaining about the networks causing Dish Network to lose distant networks, now you are complaining that Murdoch isn't "following agreed upon rules"?

Reread what Fox agreed to in their purchase of DirecTV. There is nothing in there about settling lawsuits.

Or maybe Murdoch is a better poker player than anyone has ever believed.
 
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