Waht is stopping the sat carriers from using the digital feeds now? Sure some stations still ahve no digital feed but that would bea minority.
EchoStar & DIRECTV Could Miss Digital TV Deadline
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But how much work are they doing now on channels that do have digital feeds. A majority of stations in my area now have digital feeds, and have had for some time, but Dish still uplinks the analog feed.
From what I've seen the majority of the stations are going to be staying on their current assignments. Even for markets where one or more might be moving nothing says they can't convert the channels that won't be changing assignments. Even for one's that are moving are they using special ATSC receivers that are fixed at a certain frequency or tuners so its just change the channel number and maybe change the antenna input if necessary.
Starting this process now might also help push the local stations to start adding some redundancy to their ATSC infrastructure. Right now most have no redundancy so if one part in the signal path goes down the station's off the air. If DBS and cable started using the ATSC feed now, which would probably be the majority of their viewers, the stations might start to spend the dollars to add the redundancy.
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hall;1016949Surely there's a limit to what "must" be carried.[/quote said:sounds like a "significantly viewed locals" clause has gone away in favor of having to "carry one, carry all".
Excuse me while I go launch a "watch paint drying" channel so I can be carried on DISH Network Albuquerque locals package.
I'm in favor of minimal viewership figures (so many people in a DMA watching on average) in order to determine what DISH/DIRECTV/cable/IPTV must carry. It's hard for me to see any pay-tv provider being forced to waste money on collection and backhaul resources and bandwidth to carry a UHF station like THE HITLER CHANNEL that maybe only 10 people in a DMA care about.
If they carry a market (DMA) they have to carry every FULL power station designated as being in the DMA that elects to be carried. -LP and repeaters do not count. Of course there is a lot of deal making going on. For example major networks often elect not to be must carry so they can get compensation for the retransmission. This could include carrying a low power sister station or other such arrangement. If you are not a major net and you do not pick must carry, you are sure to be dropped from DBS. The HD channels are a separate deal and a separate law.
Why would the stations care whether the satellite companies show the analog or identical digital feed? Is anyone asking for greater compensation for their digital feed?
Yep, for the stations currently holding out on the retransmission rights, but D*/E* do have contracts in place with a number of stations, else we wouldn't be getting the HD LIL's now. But that does bring up the issue, have D* and D* been out there already getting the contracts in place or are they going to wait until the last moment?
Guess so since companies like LIN have not allowed D* and E* to carry their ATSC stations without addional $'s being paid.
Some of you are missing the forest because of the trees...
Yes, many stations have provided a direct fibre link to the LRF/POP. But that is generally for the larger network stations in the bigger markets only. Those such as a local PBS may not have sent equipment other than an antenna into the LRF/POP for DirecTV and Dish Network to receive a station. With the digital transition, the station must also provide a digital converter box along with that antenna for those stations that are not going the fibre route.
My guess is that DirecTV and Dish Network both want to force the stations to get their butts in gear and provide their signals already, or at least let the satcasters in on the plans to get a digital signal from the stations which they carry.
And I do somewhat agree with harshness. I think DirecTV and Dish Network will want to use their current SD spot-beam bandwidth exactly as it is now once the digital transition deadline has passed. They will want to downconvert the HD feeds from the stations into what is now the MPEG2 SD feeds they currently offer, so as not to shut everyone down who doesn't have the MPEG4 equipment.
It's only less than a year and a half way.
The problem here is what must be done at the Local Receive Facility (LRF), or point-of-presence (POP). Unless the method of reception at the LRF/POP has been rolled into the carriage agreement, the station must provide DirecTV and Dish Network with any equipment needed to receive their signal at the LRF/POP.
Yes, many stations have provided a direct fibre link to the LRF/POP. But that is generally for the larger network stations in the bigger markets only. Those such as a local PBS may not have sent equipment other than an antenna into the LRF/POP for DirecTV and Dish Network to receive a station. With the digital transition, the station must also provide a digital converter box along with that antenna for those stations that are not going the fibre route.
My guess is that DirecTV and Dish Network both want to force the stations to get their butts in gear and provide their signals already, or at least let the satcasters in on the plans to get a digital signal from the stations which they carry.
And I do somewhat agree with harshness. I think DirecTV and Dish Network will want to use their current SD spot-beam bandwidth exactly as it is now once the digital transition deadline has passed. They will want to downconvert the HD feeds from the stations into what is now the MPEG2 SD feeds they currently offer, so as not to shut everyone down who doesn't have the MPEG4 equipment.
It's only less than a year and a half way.
Greg, if that's the issue then what's the big deal. According to http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-07-91A1.pdf on page 3, paragraph 5 it says that 1,702 stations have been granted construction permits or licenses and 1,603 stations are on the air, a difference of 99 stations.
It goes on and says in markets 1-30 all network affiliates stations are on the air. In markets 31 and below there are approcimately 1,230 commercial stations, of which 1,136 are broadcasting a digital signal, a difference of 94 stations, only 5 less then the 99 total.
So while it looks like there are some stations not on the air with their ATSC signal yet the vast majority are it doesn't look like the doom and gloom that E* and D* make it sound like with millions of viewers loosing their stations or making it sound like cable has a much easier job to do the switch.
You've still missed the forest through the trees.rad said:
The problem isn't that these stations aren't broadcasting digitally. The problem is they aren't being received digitally by Dish Network and DirecTV. And if these stations do not put the appropriate digital reception equipment at the LRF/POP by 19 February 2009, they will be gone.
So the problem is that the stations aren't doing their part to make sure their digital signals are available to the satcasters. We are only a year and a half away from the cut-off, and DirecTV only has 61 markets available, while Dish Network is somewhere around 30. Those are the only stations which provided digital reception equipment at this time.
I also believe this is in retaliation to the proposed ALL BITS rule being contemplated at the FCC. And that is the last thing anyone wants, other than the broadcasterss. Imagine both digital must-carry and no compression. Four HD channels, SD channels and weather radar, and I haven't even begun discussing the PBS channels and the lesser stations. AND, all of these would be forced onto both DirecTV and Dish Network if the rule passes.
So you're saying that at the reception site it's the local stations that are responsible for purchasing and installing an ATSC receiver and not D*/E*, that doesn't seem right IMHO. I don't see anywhere in what the OP put in the first post that says it's due to reception hardware not being installed but says "the satcasters say they likely won't be ready by February 17, 2009 if local broadcasters delay in switching from analog to digital.", nothing about recepition equipment.
But as you've pointed out, there are less than 100 stations left that haven't started their digital service. Why would they complain about "the transition" if most have already completed the digital side of the transition? Because it is about cutting off the analog side, and the stations haven't done much to give the satcasters the digital equipment needed once the analog cut-off is complete.
Goes back to my question, where is it said that broadcasters MUST supply receiving hardware to the DBS and cable companies in order to retransmit their signal?
As for the transition issue, if the companies are worried about how long it will take to do this, why aren't they doing this now? D* and E* both have a bunch of HD LIL markets now and AFAIK, not one single market has had their SD feeds switched to use the ATSC signal.
It's an FCC rule somewhere. The station must supply the satcaster with the equipment needed to obtain their channel at the LRF/POP.
I think there are issues regarding downconverting the HD signal for use as the stations SD feed. I don't know exactly, but I think that is one of those things which need to be discussed during a carriage agreement.
I think there are issues regarding downconverting the HD signal for use as the stations SD feed. I don't know exactly, but I think that is one of those things which need to be discussed during a carriage agreement.
I went looking around in Google, and at _ found a section about DBS reception requirements at LRF, "clarify that satellite carriers may not require local broadcast stations carried pursuant to mandatory carriage to pay for basic reception equipment at local receive facilities but are, as in the cable rules, responsible for costs of additional or special equipment. "
Looking at some other sites it sounds like if it's necessary to take special steps to get a usuable signal to a DBR LRF, such as a fiber or microwave feed, then the station pays for it. So the way I take it if E*/D* can put up an antenna and connect a receiver and get a good signal they pay for it, if more is necessary to get a good signal then the station has to pay.
I'm curious how cable and DBS will handle when all the local stations are ATSC and they're broadcasting 16:9 HD content what they're going to do for the SD folks, that could be the bigger headache IMHO. Do you give them black bars and all the picture and get folks b*tching about the bars or give them a cropped picture and then get folks b*tching about cutting off part of my picture?
I believe the way the rule works, the local station has to provide equipment to the DBS provider only if there is not a resonable OTA signal available at the DBS POP. In other words if your signal does not cover the entire DMA you might have to find a way to provide a signal to a POP located in your DMA, but outside your signal coverage. This is probably a fairly small number of stations, probably in DMAs out west where they share stations between towns (like ABC in one town CBS in a different one but far apart, so you have trouble getting the OTA signal).
The issue comes down to they need to make arrangements with the local stations to carry their digital broadcasts, but work through technical details like letterboxing. There would probably be an uproar if letterboxing started to appear on 4:3 sets when the user can get 4:3 over the air still. It is just one of those things that the lawmakers of course left undecided, they just say analog cutoff is this date because we want the $$ from the auction of the frequencies, how it is handled does not bother us.
The issue comes down to they need to make arrangements with the local stations to carry their digital broadcasts, but work through technical details like letterboxing. There would probably be an uproar if letterboxing started to appear on 4:3 sets when the user can get 4:3 over the air still. It is just one of those things that the lawmakers of course left undecided, they just say analog cutoff is this date because we want the $$ from the auction of the frequencies, how it is handled does not bother us.
I would like to see the actual regs here. I do know that SOME of the signals carried by E* are digital already. In the DC DMA we have one station that is only broadcasting digitally. But I do see the point that a sudden change in the signal could be a problem---especially if they now pick up the digital signal on one frequency but it will revert to another on 2/2009.
We also have a couple of stations that do not cover the whole DMA. I suppose that it will be up to them to get the appropriate signal to the sat carriers in time and those small stations may very well be the ones that E* is talking about.
I don;'t think we know how many markets where the sat carriers are actually picking up the digital feeds. It is pretty much transparent to the viewer.
We also have a couple of stations that do not cover the whole DMA. I suppose that it will be up to them to get the appropriate signal to the sat carriers in time and those small stations may very well be the ones that E* is talking about.
I don;'t think we know how many markets where the sat carriers are actually picking up the digital feeds. It is pretty much transparent to the viewer.
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Another problem is that the sat providers MUST carry the analog signal as long as it is on the air. To add a digital signal too doubles the needed bandwidth until Feb 2009.
Dish and Direct are asking stations to flip to digital and turn off NTSC asap so they can start converting to digital feeds not the required analog feed.
Dish and Direct are asking stations to flip to digital and turn off NTSC asap so they can start converting to digital feeds not the required analog feed.
