Echostar 14 update

[cditty]

Most installs are only one dish. The eastern arc allows them to provide signals to customers that had line of sight issues before. Some cant even get signal from DirecTV, but they can get eastern arc fine.

E14 is needed as it will replace the E7 and its large inefficient spotbeams. E14 will allow them to provide more local HD markets. Plus they need as many satellites as they can get. If they had a failure right now they would be in a world of hurt.

I guess it just seems like quite the burden to have such a large fleet. In the end, I wonder if it will be a hinderance to get new channels, etc... since they have to go on each 'arc'.

I can see the advantage as far as locals go, as they need alot of spots to cover all these dma's. I suppose I feel like they will always be in a world of hurt if they have a failure, since one arc can't backup the other.

For instance, I am part of a six radio station cluster. If a transmitter fails, we have a frequency agile backup that we activate on the frequency of the failed station. If another one goes off at the same time, it's just off. If Dish loses 119 for instance, having eastern arc doesn't help them one bit. They could only reencode the western arc and compress the hell out of it to put 119's channels on 110 and 129. I don't know, I just feel like swapping everyone to 8PSK receivers and staying on Western Arc would have been easier to maintain over the long haul. I know, some people don't have LOS to western arc, but I doubt that they added enough new subscribers to pay for maintaining that fleet.

I must be missing something here.

 

[nelson61]

I guess it just seems like quite the burden to have such a large fleet. In the end, I wonder if it will be a hinderance to get new channels, etc... since they have to go on each 'arc'.

I can see the advantage as far as locals go, as they need alot of spots to cover all these dma's. I suppose I feel like they will always be in a world of hurt if they have a failure, since one arc can't backup the other.

For instance, I am part of a six radio station cluster. If a transmitter fails, we have a frequency agile backup that we activate on the frequency of the failed station. If another one goes off at the same time, it's just off. If Dish loses 119 for instance, having eastern arc doesn't help them one bit. They could only reencode the western arc and compress the hell out of it to put 119's channels on 110 and 129. I don't know, I just feel like swapping everyone to 8PSK receivers and staying on Western Arc would have been easier to maintain over the long haul. I know, some people don't have LOS to western arc, but I doubt that they added enough new subscribers to pay for maintaining that fleet.

I must be missing something here.

With satellite TV it's all about slots. There is a finite amount of bandwidth at each slot. Directv controls 100 percent of the dbs spectrum in the 101W slot area while Dish only controls 2/3 to 90 pecent of the spectrum at 110 and 119.

Directv went with KU and heavy KA. This doubled up the bandwidth at their core slots. Now they intend to add 17ghz at the same locations.

Dish went down another road with more 12.2-12.7 satellites. Technically, a better signal since the lower frequency has less fade problems. And they also intend to double up using the 17 ghz band.

If you look at their beam coverage, you will see that the major portion of the locals with significant viewers can be covered by multiple slots providing local service. Redundancy is what it is all about. Yes, really bad news if they have a failure, but dishes can be repointed relatively fast in comparison to the 2-3 years it takes under ideal conditions to replace a satellite (catastrophic failures can and do occur). I think in another two years, Dish will have the more robust system.

 

[RVD420]

Weren't those D* birds the ones originally intended for internet use, and were "repurposed?" Or have I got them confused with birds launched later?

BTW, it's been many years since the shuttle was allowed to be considered for commercial satellites. Didn't seem cost effective, anyway.

You are thinking of the spaceway birds.

The inital DirecTV spotbeam bird went to the main slot at 101w

 

[navychop]

Thanks.

 

[MexicoPete]

Conus beam in Mexico

Most installs are only one dish. The eastern arc allows them to provide signals to customers that had line of sight issues before. Some cant even get signal from DirecTV, but they can get eastern arc fine.

E14 is needed as it will replace the E7 and its large inefficient spotbeams. E14 will allow them to provide more local HD markets. Plus they need as many satellites as they can get. If they had a failure right now they would be in a world of hurt.

And the CONUS E7 beams bleed all over much of Mexico (I slit my time between Seattle and Central Mexico, and pay for my DISH programming) And darn it sadly the new E14 will have a much tighter Conus beam that may not reach Guadalajara.

At least one can get the HD CONUS feeds on 129 with a 9 foot Ku dish. Happy new year from very cold and wet Seattle.

 

[nelson61]

Minor Modifiction placed on Public notice 1/8/2010.

Notify going to License

 

[MikeInAlaska]

so how do they do it? move the sat to the same position but a few kilometers more distant, then move the old sat out of there?

 

[Bob Haller]

there was a proposal years ago for fAST satellite launch ability.

a clean room warehouse near KSC with some generic replacements ready for launch in a week or less. specially designed to be fuel and GO..

this included reusing some old missle silos in florida. The boosters similiar to the ones to deliver nuclear bombs would be maintained on permanent standby

I dont know if anything came of this, it may be cheaper to just have in orbit spares. last I checked many E slots have a extra or little used sat that can be turned on fast if a failure occurs.

the military has the fast launch capacity down solid since one day a enemy can be shooting at them

 

[nelson61]

so how do they do it? move the sat to the same position but a few kilometers more distant, then move the old sat out of there?

Yes. Colocate them close to each other ( but much more separation than a few km ).

 

[Bob Haller]

Geo sats are designed to live their life in a 200 ft by 200 feet box.....

Sorce then president of SS Loral

 

[HDRoberts]

Geo sats are designed to live their life in a 200 ft by 200 feet box.....

Sorce then president of SS Loral

Pretty sure that's a 200x200 km box. Or maybe miles. At 22,000 miles away, a few hundred km hardly equates to much longitude movement.

 

[nelson61]

Pretty sure that's a 200x200 km box. Or maybe miles. At 22,000 miles away, a few hundred km hardly equates to much longitude movement.

Licenses are typically for +/- 0.05 degree. The more slop they are allowed, the lower the fuel consumption. Directv's Boeing satellites use a technology on their newer satellites that is more fuel efficient and allows a much tighter box.

 

[nelson61]

Spectrum Five continue to toss sand in the gears. This latest salvo is aimed at both Directv and Echostar.

They also got the gov of Netherlands to whack at Echostar 14.

http://licensing.fcc.gov/myibfs/download.do?attachment_key=794222

 

[sundude90]

Spectrum Five continue to toss sand in the gears. This latest salvo is aimed at both Directv and Echostar.

They also got the gov of Netherlands to whack at Echostar 14.

http://licensing.fcc.gov/myibfs/download.do?attachment_key=794222

But is Dish still ok to launch this satellite? Has this license for E14 been approved by the FCC?

Josh

 

[whatchel1]

Sounds closer

Pretty sure that's a 200x200 km box. Or maybe miles. At 22,000 miles away, a few hundred km hardly equates to much longitude movement.

That sounds a whole lot closer to correct. I'm pretty sure that the solar arrays are about 80ft wide by themselves. So I emailed Loral to see if they can give me an answer.
Just got an email back from Loral and the solar panels on the SSL-1300 (which is what E* 14 will be) are up to 100ft by 60ft. That would make the sat over 200 ft by itself. I think that she is going to get me the size of the box that it is limited to travel within tomorrow. She returned the email quicker than I expected. The 200km is close to the correct amount.

 

[nelson61]

But is Dish still ok to launch this satellite? Has this license for E14 been approved by the FCC?

Josh

E14 was just placed on public notice. One can expect a "grant" (license) to issue sometime in the following 30 days. The grant may and will likely include some type of restrictions on E14 usage.

 

[RVD420]

Spectrum Five continue to toss sand in the gears. This latest salvo is aimed at both Directv and Echostar.

They also got the gov of Netherlands to whack at Echostar 14.

http://licensing.fcc.gov/myibfs/download.do?attachment_key=794222

Gosh is Spectrum Five current with their filings?

Maybe I am wrong, but IF I remember correctly Spectrum Five is behind on their filings, and will in all likely hood not make their milestone for a timely launch.

 

[whatchel1]

I think they are mostly just trying to get bought out.

 

[nelson61]

Gosh is Spectrum Five current with their filings?

Maybe I am wrong, but IF I remember correctly Spectrum Five is behind on their filings, and will in all likely hood not make their milestone for a timely launch.

Their grant is dated 11/29/2006 with provison construction of first satellite must be complete with in 4 years or before 11/29/2010. Else they lose their US license.

http://licensing.fcc.gov/myibfs/download.do?attachment_key=537153

 

[Voyager6]

Their grant is dated 11/29/2006 with provison construction of first satellite must be complete with in 4 years or before 11/29/2010. Else they lose their US license.

http://licensing.fcc.gov/myibfs/download.do?attachment_key=537153

If that's the case, then Spectrum Five should have no problem producing the actual satellite that they intend to put into orbit by November. Both satellites need to be in orbit and in operation within 6 years (11/29/2012). Spectrum Five's next progress report is due by June 30.