DVR 921 at www.VSSLL.com
- Thread starter tcj2001
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As a fellow online merchant I can totally see Tracy's stance. The consumer is the one that is protected. If there is a dispute, the credit card processor automatically gives the money back to the consumer. The burden is then on the merchant to prove it was a legit transaction and the actual cardholder received the product or service as promised. The burden of proof is so high that I normally don't even bother challenging it and just eat the chargeback to my merchant account. My average ticket is $25 so this is not that big of a deal to me but Tracy couldn't eat $999 too many times without really feeling it. Also, a merchant pays a transaction fee anywhere from 2.5% - 5% so on a $1000 transaction the merchant pays from $25-$50 just for accepting the credit card.
YourNameHere said:
Actually they hold the funds out of your merchant account until they get both sides of the dispute.
That is why it is so important to have the card in hand and swipe it, or imprint it. To prove the card was actually at the mernchant POS.
I've even told merchants to ask the customer for a rubbing of their card and send it in the mail.
With online transactions, they use address verification and the 3 digit Card Security Code(CSC) verification.
None of it is foolproof though and fraud does happen.
Plus a monthly fee and or a minimum fee if the merchant doesnt meet a certain gross amount of CC sales per month and a statement fee and/or an equipment rental fee to boot.
Its a catch 22. If you don't take CC. You lose the ATM debit user too. IF you do, you open yourself up to fraud & chargebacks.
Nuttin is ever simple.
And 5 years ago, I worked for a CC company that held Online CC transactions 180 days before posting them to a merchants account. I couldn't see how any merchant could tie up money for 6 months and still be afloat.
That was the processors solution to help control fraudulent x-actions.
I had to quit. The employer ended up owing me 10 large. I never got it either.
That was the processors solution to help control fraudulent x-actions.
I had to quit. The employer ended up owing me 10 large. I never got it either.
YourNameHere-
You state the truth. I just went through a major chargeback fraud case here in an international transaction.
Mark_AR What you state was not what actually happened in my recent M/C case. The chargeback was reversed and the funds returned to the cardholder's bank. The Bank of the cardholder is the one who is out the money until the chargeback is put through as in my case the cardholder was disputing the charge so he didn't ever pay his bill. Next I challenged it with the exact procedure dictated by my clearing house fraud agent. It took 30 days for the funds to be returned to my account. BUT it then was still not over. The clearing house slapped a 45 day freeze on those funds in my account so I couldn't have access to them anyway. During the 45 days the Cardholder's Bank goes after their customer for additional proof to challenge my docs and proff the charge was legit. After 45 days with no further evidence that the docs I submitted are false, the case is closed and the freeze is lifted from my account. Furthermore, this case's first challenged transaction went back 4 months. There is supposed to be a 60 day discovery period but considering it was an international sale that didn't apply. I don't know what the statute of limitation is on international discovery period but it must be longer than 4 months!
YourName- I disagree with you about not fighting the small claims. If many those claims are legit, that's one thing (you need to clean up YOUR act) but if you are being ripped off, you probably have greater loss than you realize. Did you ever consider that the clearing house you use is charging you a premium disc rate because your account is high risk by the track record that charge backs are being filed and are not being challenged? I've only ever had a few chargebacks but I challenged every one and won every case small and most certainly this last large one. According to my rep, when you have a perfect track record for not ever having valid chargebacks you are given much lower disc rates, even for high risk mail order / Internet sales.
Mark_AR I don't see how your employer got the charge to stick after 6 months. I am required to submit the charge no sooner than the day of shipment and no later than 30 days or the CC charge may not be used without a delayed invoicing submitted to the purchaser. Maybe you meant to say that they held the funds in the account for a period of 6 months so they would be there in the event of chargeback. I'm sure they processed the charge in a reasonable time period.
I'm sorry you got burned for the back pay. I hiope you turned the matter over to the State dept of labor for action. You will get paid or your employer will go to jail. Even if he went bankrupt the employees are FIRST to get paid ahead of all debtors! If not then there must be something else to the story. If you were an independent contractor, then well, get in line. dept of labor won't help you. I think you need to talk to an attorney and get your money!
You state the truth. I just went through a major chargeback fraud case here in an international transaction.
Mark_AR What you state was not what actually happened in my recent M/C case. The chargeback was reversed and the funds returned to the cardholder's bank. The Bank of the cardholder is the one who is out the money until the chargeback is put through as in my case the cardholder was disputing the charge so he didn't ever pay his bill. Next I challenged it with the exact procedure dictated by my clearing house fraud agent. It took 30 days for the funds to be returned to my account. BUT it then was still not over. The clearing house slapped a 45 day freeze on those funds in my account so I couldn't have access to them anyway. During the 45 days the Cardholder's Bank goes after their customer for additional proof to challenge my docs and proff the charge was legit. After 45 days with no further evidence that the docs I submitted are false, the case is closed and the freeze is lifted from my account. Furthermore, this case's first challenged transaction went back 4 months. There is supposed to be a 60 day discovery period but considering it was an international sale that didn't apply. I don't know what the statute of limitation is on international discovery period but it must be longer than 4 months!
YourName- I disagree with you about not fighting the small claims. If many those claims are legit, that's one thing (you need to clean up YOUR act) but if you are being ripped off, you probably have greater loss than you realize. Did you ever consider that the clearing house you use is charging you a premium disc rate because your account is high risk by the track record that charge backs are being filed and are not being challenged? I've only ever had a few chargebacks but I challenged every one and won every case small and most certainly this last large one. According to my rep, when you have a perfect track record for not ever having valid chargebacks you are given much lower disc rates, even for high risk mail order / Internet sales.
Mark_AR I don't see how your employer got the charge to stick after 6 months. I am required to submit the charge no sooner than the day of shipment and no later than 30 days or the CC charge may not be used without a delayed invoicing submitted to the purchaser. Maybe you meant to say that they held the funds in the account for a period of 6 months so they would be there in the event of chargeback. I'm sure they processed the charge in a reasonable time period.
I'm sorry you got burned for the back pay. I hiope you turned the matter over to the State dept of labor for action. You will get paid or your employer will go to jail. Even if he went bankrupt the employees are FIRST to get paid ahead of all debtors! If not then there must be something else to the story. If you were an independent contractor, then well, get in line.
dept of labor won't help you. I think you need to talk to an attorney and get your money!
Don,
Yes, They POST it to the account, but did have a 180 day hold on the funds.
As for the 10G's. I was independent and signed an agreement as such. He declared banckruptcy one day and there was a sign on the door. He owed a bunch of money. I did end up getting 900 out of it, but also had to write off the rest. The bank, Fedex, phone co, and POS equipment company took their share first.
Lessons learned. Never hold checks from an employer to help see him thru with promise of business to pick up soon. I am older and a lot wiser now.
Yes, They POST it to the account, but did have a 180 day hold on the funds.
As for the 10G's. I was independent and signed an agreement as such. He declared banckruptcy one day and there was a sign on the door. He owed a bunch of money. I did end up getting 900 out of it, but also had to write off the rest. The bank, Fedex, phone co, and POS equipment company took their share first.
Lessons learned. Never hold checks from an employer to help see him thru with promise of business to pick up soon. I am older and a lot wiser now.
Missed this part...
Yes, you are correct Don, goods or services have to be delivered to the customer within 30 days or you have to delay billing.
That was my gripe againt that ebay seller. He has to guarantee delivery of the 921's he is selling within 30 days or it is a fraudulent auction.
Yes, you are correct Don, goods or services have to be delivered to the customer within 30 days or you have to delay billing.
That was my gripe againt that ebay seller. He has to guarantee delivery of the 921's he is selling within 30 days or it is a fraudulent auction.
As a rule I never accept orders from specific contries. First on the list is Indonesia. All of my transactions are from various online storefronts I operate. Every month or so I will get a large order from someone with a billing address in the US and a ship to address in Indonesia. Every time without fail it ends up being a stolen card. I have gotten to where I just delete the order right off the bat and don't even bother calling my processor to investigate it.
The trouble you had, Don with a chargeback is the reason I never even bother with the dispute process. With an average ticket price of $25 it just isn't worth it. Out of several years of taking CCs online I may have had 4-5 chargebacks which isn't bad at all.
Back on Topic now... has anyone received any updates from Tracy as to the availability of the JVC 921s he is waiting on?
The trouble you had, Don with a chargeback is the reason I never even bother with the dispute process. With an average ticket price of $25 it just isn't worth it. Out of several years of taking CCs online I may have had 4-5 chargebacks which isn't bad at all.
Back on Topic now... has anyone received any updates from Tracy as to the availability of the JVC 921s he is waiting on?
I talked to Tracy on Monday the 5th of Jan. He was in NC and was going to go to Georgia Tuesday and then back to Florida on Wednesday if that is of any help.
I placed an order for a 921 with local dealer in Oct 03 – I checked with them Monday 5th and they told me it would be months.
I send Tracy the money for a 921 Tuesday knowing he could not ship till Thursday or Friday. I told him to ship it UPS 3 day select.
If I get one next week I'll will be happy, but will let you know if I get one.
Marv
I placed an order for a 921 with local dealer in Oct 03 – I checked with them Monday 5th and they told me it would be months.
I send Tracy the money for a 921 Tuesday knowing he could not ship till Thursday or Friday. I told him to ship it UPS 3 day select.
If I get one next week I'll will be happy, but will let you know if I get one.
Marv
Thanks for the update Marvs. I assume you are in line for one of the JVC units. Is that correct? Keep us posted with updates. I think I am 13 or 14 on his list and he is supposed to be getting 20 soon so maybe I will get one about the same time as you.
Fingers crossed.
Fingers crossed.
