DPP Multiswitch Location

[PopcornNMore]

Unfortunately when I had Dish Network installed at our home 4 years ago the installer did a sloppy job. We always had problems with the HD channels breaking up from 129 due to low signal strength. Last year I re-adjusted the dish myself and was able to receive higher signal strengths on all 4 satellites and the HD channels no longer broke up. Well now once again the dish got out of alignment during the winter and the channels are breaking up worse than ever before.

The installer ran four 50' strands of coax down to the DPP-44 switch which he mounted on the side of the house near the coax entrance into the house. The coax going to the power inserter is fairly short (roughly 10'). Now since the coax has been weather beaten during the last 4 years I'm thinking about replacing all the coax and installing the DPP44 switch near the dish using 3' or 4' coax from the LNB's to the switch and then one 50' coax down the side of the house for a cleaner installation. This would use less coax and provide stronger signals on all satellites. I will then use coax seal to protect all connections at the switch.

Question: Where do professional Dish Network installers place the DPP-44 multiswitch? I wonder why the installer didn't place it near the dish in the first place.

 

[Miner]

Popcorn,

I'm not a professional installer, but have had several professional installations over the last dozen years. The DPP-44 is an expensive and fairly large switch, and while it is reliable, sun and esp rain have been known to induce failures. If possible, mounting the unit inside the house is preferred, or under the roof overhang if inside is not possible. Inside mounting does require the 4 runs of coax, but compared to the cost of the switch, it is cheap. It also helps when you want to add a second, third or fourth receiver. Just add a piece of coax from the switch to the TV instead of back to the switch.
Miner

 

[Dr.Pepper]

Unfortunately when I had Dish Network installed at our home 4 years ago the installer did a sloppy job. We always had problems with the HD channels breaking up from 129 due to low signal strength. Last year I re-adjusted the dish myself and was able to receive higher signal strengths on all 4 satellites and the HD channels no longer broke up. Well now once again the dish got out of alignment during the winter and the channels are breaking up worse than ever before.

The installer ran four 50' strands of coax down to the DPP-44 switch which he mounted on the side of the house near the coax entrance into the house. The coax going to the power inserter is fairly short (roughly 10'). Now since the coax has been weather beaten during the last 4 years I'm thinking about replacing all the coax and installing the DPP44 switch near the dish using 3' or 4' coax from the LNB's to the switch and then one 50' coax down the side of the house for a cleaner installation. This would use less coax and provide stronger signals on all satellites. I will then use coax seal to protect all connections at the switch.

Question: Where do professional Dish Network installers place the DPP-44 multiswitch? I wonder why the installer didn't place it near the dish in the first place.

If you do reinstall your system, could you post some "before" and "after" pictures please?

 

[PopcornNMore]

Popcorn,

I'm not a professional installer, but have had several professional installations over the last dozen years. The DPP-44 is an expensive and fairly large switch, and while it is reliable, sun and esp rain have been known to induce failures. If possible, mounting the unit inside the house is preferred, or under the roof overhang if inside is not possible. Inside mounting does require the 4 runs of coax, but compared to the cost of the switch, it is cheap. It also helps when you want to add a second, third or fourth receiver. Just add a piece of coax from the switch to the TV instead of back to the switch.
Miner

This makes a lot of sense. I might change my mind and mount the switch inside the house instead.

 

[PopcornNMore]

I sure will provide pictures Dr. Pepper.

 

[TonyT@DISH Network]

I want to point out that the location of the switch should not provide stronger signals on the satellites as I do not believe the switch amplifies signal from the dish. The battle with signal issues starts with the dish itself, and having it peaked will typically allow for various weather conditions to pass without interruption of service. All the switch really does is "switch" between one sat feed and another, kind of like a networking router. The difference between a powered switch and passive switch, and the only difference as far as I am concerned, is what powers the switch. The DPP44 has its own power supply, versus the passive ones powered off the receivers.

The DPP44, like any switch, can be mounted under an eve. If there is an eve (without wrapping the house) that offers the most universal protection (wind, water, snow or the combination of wind/water or wind/snow) that would be the best place for it. Also, when installing it, make sure you provide space for drip loops to keep the water away from the fittings at BOTH ends of the cables, and where ever it enters the house. Usually techs use a torque wrench designed to torque the cable and offer it the most protection from dirt and water entering the fitting as well. Make sure you also use snap and seal connectors, as that keeps the water out of the fitting from the cable side. Digicon is a name frequently used, but there are others available at hardware and home improvement stores. I still can't stress enough how much a drip loop protects against the weather as much as shelter does. I am not sure if there is a "standard" honestly, but there was when I installed coax. It had to be a minimum of a 6" loop so that the cable would not break or stress/fatigue and it would properly evacuate water from the fittings. It also looks uniform and IMHO uniform adds to the cleanliness of the install. Believe me, I have seen installs where it looks like someone threw cable at the wall and then tacked it down where ever and however they could. Not pretty at all.

Again, I cannot stress the importance of peaking the dish. The better you can get the signal, the more resilient it will be. Also, make sure to tighten the bolts so that it won't move but don't over-tighten them and weaken the bolt or mounting bracket. I recently had a tech out to re-peak my dish which had actually been having signal issues since the day it was installed, but only with really bad weather. Since that visit, I have not had a flicker or pixelization during some of the nastiest snowstorms we've had this year in Colorado.

 

[SandFarmer]

. . . I have not had a flicker or pixelization during some of the nastiest snowstorms we've had this year in Colorado.

Must be nice. I have them on the clearest of days.

 

[PopcornNMore]

I want to point out that the location of the switch should not provide stronger signals on the satellites as I do not believe the switch amplifies signal from the dish. The battle with signal issues starts with the dish itself, and having it peaked will typically allow for various weather conditions to pass without interruption of service. All the switch really does is "switch" between one sat feed and another, kind of like a networking router. The difference between a powered switch and passive switch, and the only difference as far as I am concerned, is what powers the switch. The DPP44 has its own power supply, versus the passive ones powered off the receivers.

The DPP44, like any switch, can be mounted under an eve. If there is an eve (without wrapping the house) that offers the most universal protection (wind, water, snow or the combination of wind/water or wind/snow) that would be the best place for it. Also, when installing it, make sure you provide space for drip loops to keep the water away from the fittings at BOTH ends of the cables, and where ever it enters the house. Usually techs use a torque wrench designed to torque the cable and offer it the most protection from dirt and water entering the fitting as well. Make sure you also use snap and seal connectors, as that keeps the water out of the fitting from the cable side. Digicon is a name frequently used, but there are others available at hardware and home improvement stores. I still can't stress enough how much a drip loop protects against the weather as much as shelter does. I am not sure if there is a "standard" honestly, but there was when I installed coax. It had to be a minimum of a 6" loop so that the cable would not break or stress/fatigue and it would properly evacuate water from the fittings. It also looks uniform and IMHO uniform adds to the cleanliness of the install. Believe me, I have seen installs where it looks like someone threw cable at the wall and then tacked it down where ever and however they could. Not pretty at all.

Again, I cannot stress the importance of peaking the dish. The better you can get the signal, the more resilient it will be. Also, make sure to tighten the bolts so that it won't move but don't over-tighten them and weaken the bolt or mounting bracket. I recently had a tech out to re-peak my dish which had actually been having signal issues since the day it was installed, but only with really bad weather. Since that visit, I have not had a flicker or pixelization during some of the nastiest snowstorms we've had this year in Colorado.

Thank you for the tips. I definately was planning on tweaking the dish in addition to installing new coax and moving the switch, because the installer didn't install the switch under an eve and didn't use drip loops. I was going to relocate the switch 4 years ago right after the bad install into my communications room, but never found the time until now.

What I meant by improved signal strength was not that the switch is amplified, but that four short new runs of coax to the switch near the dish would have less loss than four 50' runs of old weather beaten coax with rusted connections since the installer didn't install the switch under an eve, didn't wrap the connections with coax seal and didn't have any drip loops.

 

[harshness]

Now since the coax has been weather beaten during the last 4 years I'm thinking about replacing all the coax and installing the DPP44 switch near the dish using 3' or 4' coax from the LNB's to the switch and then one 50' coax down the side of the house for a cleaner installation.

You might consider using a DishPro Plus twin LNB instead of the DPP44. As you appear to have only one receiver, this would be the cheapest way to go (and you could sell the DPP44 and power inserter). Alternatively, you could sell the DPP44 and use the proceeds to buy a 1000.4 dish that features a much slicker adjustment system.

This would use less coax and provide stronger signals on all satellites.

As TonyT suggests, this is flawed reasoning. Satellite signals (~12GHz) stop at the LNB and are "rebroadcast" from the LNB at 950-1450MHz for the trip into the house. Signal strength as measured by the on-screen meter is uniquely concerned with how well the dish is picking up the Ku signal. Replacing coaxial cable will not improve the meter readings

Question: Where do professional Dish Network installers place the DPP-44 multiswitch?

Usually, it is installed right where your's is installed. In that way, if a receiver is added, they don't have to go up to the dish and run another cable down.

 

[Jimmerinwi]

A DPP twin wouldn't work. The way the OP sounds, he has a 1000 Plus dish, (4 50ft coax runs to the switch). I could be wrong though.

 

[harshness]

The way the OP sounds, he has a 1000 Plus dish, (4 50ft coax runs to the switch).

The signature says that the dish is a 1000+ so you're probably not wrong. The OP seems to be a collector of dishes.

 

[sca]

the reason we do not place the switch at the dish (besides weather factors) is for grounding reasons. whether true or not, training suggests it is better to ground before the switch or to the switch if it is UL listed. if the switch is on the roof, you cant do this. the location of the switch means nothing as far as signal. but its better to have it weather protected, or at least cap the unused ports so water doesnt migrate in...and of course the drip loops...

 

[PopcornNMore]

A DPP twin wouldn't work. The way the OP sounds, he has a 1000 Plus dish, (4 50ft coax runs to the switch). I could be wrong though.

You are correct. I have a 1000 plus dish and 4 50ft coax runs to the switch.

 

[PopcornNMore]

the reason we do not place the switch at the dish (besides weather factors) is for grounding reasons. whether true or not, training suggests it is better to ground before the switch or to the switch if it is UL listed. if the switch is on the roof, you cant do this. the location of the switch means nothing as far as signal. but its better to have it weather protected, or at least cap the unused ports so water doesnt migrate in...and of course the drip loops...

The installer never grounded the switch. This is something else that I will do when I rewire the system next week.

 

[sca]

well, as long as its grounded before the switch, thats fine too. there should be a ground source at the location where the switch is...if thats where the prewire coax exits/enters the house.
but re-wire may not be neccesary if the dish simply needs to be tuned. why dont you post your signal strengths?

 

[harshness]

Moving the switch up high forces the addition of a grounding block to the system. If you are concerned about losses (insertion loss is one of the more insidious), this should be considered.

NEC probably requires separate ground wires for the dish and switch unless you use a heavy wire to establish the switch as a bonding point.

 

[Liquidforce88]

To install the system properly to Dish code. A Dish1000+ will have 4 lines from the dish to the ground block, or if it is a UL listed switch the switch can be used as the ground block. Installing the switch at the dish is a BIG NO NO. If a tech ever has to come out and work on your system he will have to move the switch.

It is best to go from dish to ground block, then from ground block to the switch inside the house.

While many brands of fittings will work. I belive the only one Dish uses at this point is PPC EX6XL's. That could change next week as Dish like's to change the spec so that techs have to replace fittings all the time.

As far as signal goes, the line distances that you describe will make almost no difference. Anything less than 150' will have very little effect on the signal. The peaking of the dish is going to be much more important. Your biggest problem is the compromise Dish made with putting 4 orbital locations on that dish. Then new satellite at 129 has very good signal, but it is hard to get really good signal on the 129 with the 1000+. A much better solution would be to get a Dish500 with an I adaptor. Take the 129 LNB off of the 1000+ and put it on the 500 and peak that.

 

[TonyT@DISH Network]

Why does where the switch is mounted matter exactly? I am not aware of any codes as to location in both the installation handbook and the DPP44 installation instructions. The only thing I see is that the power inserter must be inside, the switch can be used as a ground so long as the grounding point on the house is correct (it has at least two grounding points that I saw with a brief glance over, I assume one to DISH, one to ground). Other then "using approved NEC and State guidelines for grounding" I don't see anything about length or location.

The "mount under eave" does not mean to mount it to the eave, but on a horizontal wall underneath it so that it has protection. The switch is supposed to be mounted with a particular side down, so the "face" cannot be pointing at the ground. Those were the only stipulations I saw. I am not sure why the tech would have to move the switch, so could someone explain it?

 

[Liquidforce88]

Why does where the switch is mounted matter exactly? I am not aware of any codes as to location in both the installation handbook and the DPP44 installation instructions. The only thing I see is that the power inserter must be inside, the switch can be used as a ground so long as the grounding point on the house is correct (it has at least two grounding points that I saw with a brief glance over, I assume one to DISH, one to ground). Other then "using approved NEC and State guidelines for grounding" I don't see anything about length or location.

The "mount under eave" does not mean to mount it to the eave, but on a horizontal wall underneath it so that it has protection. The switch is supposed to be mounted with a particular side down, so the "face" cannot be pointing at the ground. Those were the only stipulations I saw. I am not sure why the tech would have to move the switch, so could someone explain it?

Well since you are not in the field, you don't know the companies QC rules. So trust me if the switch is mounted at the dish by a tech, it is an auto fail. Thus any tech rolling out to a job where the switch is mounted at the dish will have to move it. Honestly I understand why, because it looks like total crap when the switch is mounted at the dish.

I really don't think a person reading from a book or an install manual should be giving advise on installation issues. There are plenty of techs on here that know exactly what Dish QC will and will not allow.

 

[Mr Tony]

popcorn
The reason you have a D1000+ is because your HD locals from Pittsburgh use to be on 118.7 (the same sat as the internationals). They have since moved to 129W (and 77W) so you would only need 3 lines from the dish (110, 119D and 129). If there was a way to swap out the LNB setup for a Dish 1000.2 LNB assembly you could get by with 1 cable run to the receiver (well the separator then to the 722) but I dont think that is possible on the D1000+ dish