Does H3 Netflix stream directly from Netflix Servers, or through Dish's Network?

[seanpaul]

In attempting to troubleshoot a persistent Netflix Buffering issue im trying to get an answer to the topics question.

I've searched a lot through these forums and read people say that it streams through dish and not through netflix directly, but I would hope we could get a firm answer on that if someone knows. By anecdotal evidence it appears that the content is streamed through dish, that maybe dishes servers act as a relay from Netflix? Because if you use other devices to stream on the same exact connection from the same location, with the same wireless network protocol, the non-dish devices all work.

My clients H3 is hardwired directly to the router and it is constantly buffering giving speeds between 500kbps to 2mbit which is just horrible. He can pull a consistent 60mbit directly hardwired to the modem from any computer.

It just does not make very much sense that Dish is doing this. Why would they so negatively impact their customers experience? Its almost like its on purpose, that they are purposefully sabotaging via packet shaping the streaming experience for netflix, in a not so subtle way of saying "Dont get your content through they, they suck"

Except netflix works GREAT, so long as you dont get it through Dishes hardware.

My client is on Cox communications for his ISP, and I have him test fast.com for his speed tests whenever he experiences buffering issues. Since fast.com is netflixes servers, my understanding is if they (The ISP) are packet shaping netflix, that it should also slow down the fast.com connection.

But it doesn't. His connection is always great on fast.com while netflix says its buffering at 1mbit on the H3

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

It all comes from Netflix. Dish just makes the Netflix app available which Netflix gives to them.


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[DWS44]

Welcome to SatGuys!

For kicks, have you tried connecting it wirelessly with the hardwire disconnected to see if it makes any difference? For that matter, you say he gets 60Mbit connected directly to Modem, perhaps the router itself is causing your issue? (Assuming the router in question isn't built into the modem, that is) , Lastly, Have you tried plugging a laptop into the hardwire at the Hopper location, and doing a speedtest that way?

Just some random thoughts for troubleshooting.

 

[seanpaul]

Then why would my hardwired H3 get 500kbps while the desktop gets 60mbit at fast.com? And why does the desktop stream netflix with no problems, along with every single other device, while the H3 constantly has issues?

The H3 tells you the speed while its buffering. Its painfully slow. So I cannot reasonably explain your answer. How is it possible that the H3 goes directly through netflix's servers when its operating at less than 1mbit while all other network devices have full speed according to fast.com, which is netflix's network?

If it was just the software, that might explain it. But we can see exactly what the speed is, and since its significantly lower than that explains why its buffering. It appears to be restricted in the most extreme ways. The only things that could do that are packet shaping or very poor relay throughput if dish is trying to act as a middle man.

Do you have any proof to backup your statement?

 

[seanpaul]

Welcome to SatGuys!

For kicks, have you tried connecting it wirelessly with the hardwire disconnected to see if it makes any difference? For that matter, you say he gets 60Mbit connected directly to Modem, perhaps the router itself is causing your issue? (Assuming the router in question isn't built into the modem, that is) , Lastly, Have you tried plugging a laptop into the hardwire at the Hopper location, and doing a speedtest that way?

Just some random thoughts for troubleshooting.

No, I've not tried wireless because that would be bonkers. Why go wireless when you can go hardwired? =) I dont see a point in testing something that adds no resolution to the situation.

If its the "router that causes the issue" then why do all the other devices on the network have no problem at all streaming netflix? Or do you think that the router is causing a problem with the H3? Why would that happen to the H3 and not to all the other network devices?

Yes, I've tested directly connected to the router (its a modem/router, netgear N900) ...the desktop is connected to it and has no speed issues ever. During all of the buffering. It really seems to be a problem with the H3 itself, but I would like to determine specifically why. It would be of valuable assistance to the thousands of others who apparently have this issue. I found a endless stream of reported problems of this same issue by endless users. All of their connections are fine, speedtests are fine on other devices on the same network but buffering speeds are horribly slow on the hopper.

 

[DWS44]

Do you have any proof to backup your statement?

Just FYI, since you are new. Scott is the owner of the site, and about as close to the horse's mouth as you'll get from a non-Dish employee.

 

[seanpaul]

Just FYI, since you are new. Scott is the owner of the site, and about as close to the horse's mouth as you'll get from a non-Dish employee.

Then he is probably much more knowledgeable on the topic than I am. I was unaware he was the owner. However, despite his knowledge on the subject all the evidence points to there being something wrong with the H3 itself. Either the H3 is limiting the bandwith or Dish is limiting the bandwith.

What other reasonable explanation is there, considering the circumstances? Its very difficult to explain why all other network devices work fine, but the H3 is intermittent. It will work fine on some days, and then it will go sub 1 mbit on others. It does seem to preform more poorly during peak times, but again, if the ISP is providing a stable consistent network connection at 60mbit to all other devices, then what else could it be? This is in a new development with fiber running to the curb BTW. Signal quality is excellent on the coax. There is no channel bonding issues whatsoever.

Also, while I may be new here, im a 20 year IT professional with a background in networking, with a strong emphasis with docsis technologies. I know my way around a CMTS. So im hardly clueless on the issue.

The problem is the H3 is a black box. If this thing was open source or had diagnostic tools that were available to me, then I could start to root the problem out. But with it being a black box I can only measure externally and compare it to what goes on internally.

 

[DWS44]

OH...and just saw your second reply.

I was just suggesting a couple other things to try. I agree wired is better than wireless; however, most wireless is capable of running at/close to that 60Mbit and so my thoughts was that if the wireless worked (i.e. got you better than the minimal bandwidth you are seeing now) where the hardwired didn't, perhaps there could be something wrong with the H3 Ethernet port or something like that. Longshot, but like I said, just some thoughts. Good Luck tracking it down.

 

[seanpaul]

OH...and just saw your second reply.

I was just suggesting a couple other things to try. I agree wired is better than wireless; however, most wireless is capable of running at/close to that 60Mbit and so my thoughts was that if the wireless worked (i.e. got you better than the minimal bandwidth you are seeing now) where the hardwired didn't, perhaps there could be something wrong with the H3 Ethernet port or something like that. Longshot, but like I said, just some thoughts. Good Luck tracking it down.

I thank you for the suggestions, they are not bad, but yes I've already eliminated all of the basic factors here. I can try swapping out the modem/router combo and see if it plays nicer with a different modem. However this issue actually gets much more complicated when we start getting into the higher end hardware. With all of the jitter/dns/packetloss issues plaguing puma6 devices upgrading the equipment seems like it could possibly make the situation much worse. When i upgraded my home to a 6190 I immediately noticed latency issues and dns lag and downgraded.

But the hardwired devices work great. There appears to be no issue with the N900 with any other device.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

I am not saying there are not issues with the H3 itself (or its software) as there are known networking issues in both versions of the available Hopper software.

But in answering your original question the video is indeed coming from Netflix.


Sent from my iPhone using the SatelliteGuys app!

 

[seanpaul]

im grateful for that. Sorry for the skepticism, but there are some ugly issues rearing their heads and im just trying to figure them out! I will post back after I change the modem/router and see if it helps after some testing.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

Try running a speed test from the diagnostics screen in settings.


Sent from my iPhone using the SatelliteGuys app!

 

[Dudleydog73]

Which ethernet port are you plugged into? I seem to remember there being an issue with one of them at one point, so have you tried plugging in to both of them for testing? Going wireless is not a bad option for testing in my opinion.

 

[dolfan3033]

I rarely post on here but always enjoyed the discussion on this site. Since I also have a networking background as well (certs from CompTIA and Cisco) I'd like to chip in. I personally don't have any issues streaming Netflix from my Hopper 3, but I would try downloading a VOD.. that'll tell you the speed of the connection to isolate the issue to just Netflix or system wide. If it's still slow, some ideas would be to check some QoS settings on the router/switch/WAP/modem...maybe it's throttling the Hopper 3 by MAC or IP or packet filtering. I'd also try using wifi just to see if it's the wire and/or the Ethernet port on the Hopper. Could be EMI on that particular network cable... perhaps it's not shielded or is damaged in some way. Take a laptop and hook it into wire plugged into the hopper as DWS suggested and do a speed test. Try switching the LAN port that the wire is connected too at the switch.

It could very well be the hopper, but just some ideas of things to try to eliminate every other possibility.

 

[seanpaul]

I rarely post on here but always enjoyed the discussion on this site. Since I also have a networking background as well (certs from CompTIA and Cisco) I'd like to chip in. I personally don't have any issues streaming Netflix from my Hopper 3, but I would try downloading a VOD.. that'll tell you the speed of the connection to isolate the issue to just Netflix or system wide. If it's still slow, some ideas would be to check some QoS settings on the router/switch/WAP/modem...maybe it's throttling the Hopper 3 by MAC or IP or packet filtering. I'd also try using wifi just to see if it's the wire and/or the Ethernet port on the Hopper. Could be EMI on that particular network cable... perhaps it's not shielded or is damaged in some way. Take a laptop and hook it into wire plugged into the hopper as DWS suggested and do a speed test. Try switching the LAN port that the wire is connected too at the switch.

It could very well be the hopper, but just some ideas of things to try to eliminate every other possibility.

Those are great suggestions. Im not a Dish guy and I know nothing about their hardware, so this is a learning curve for me. Thank you!

Could you let me know if watching HBO on demand satisfies the VOD status? I know there is a HBO Go streaming service, but unsure if this is a IP based service linked to dish or of dish streams HBO through satelite.

Thanks guys!

 

[dolfan3033]

Those are great suggestions. Im not a Dish guy and I know nothing about their hardware, so this is a learning curve for me. Thank you!

Could you let me know if watching HBO on demand satisfies the VOD status? I know there is a HBO Go streaming service, but unsure if this is a IP based service linked to dish or of dish streams HBO through satelite.

Thanks guys!

That'll work.. while it's playing you can press info on your remote and it'll give you the speed it's streaming at. If it's still slow, it's not just a Netflix thing. If it's fast.. well then it is... or something that's intermittent which is an issue all on its own.

With so many variables with networking, there's a million things it can be.. I feel your pain.


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[patmurphey]

I have no trouble with Netflix 4k through my Hopper3 with 25mbs DSL, the minimum recommended by Netflix. Doesn't sound like there is a Hopper3 problem.

Aside: Not all Netflix apps support HDR. My Samsung TV supports HDR, but the TV's 2015 app does not. 4k Roku doesn't either. It takes a Roku Ultra for HDR.

 

[Hall]

but I would try downloading a VOD.. that'll tell you the speed of the connection to isolate the issue to just Netflix or system wide.

FWIW, I have 50 Mb/s service (technically, it's provisioned at 64.5 Mb/s) and VODs show a download speed of ~50-55 Mb/s. Tells me there's not really a bottleneck in the Hopper....

 

[DishSubLA]

I am unaware of any third party such as Dish, TiVo, etc. who allow access via their boxes that don't connect directly to the streaming service. In fact, it may be breach of contract for those streaming service to pass content along to 3rd party servers such as Dish or TiVo and then to their subscribers. As Scott stated, Dish (along with TiVo, Roku, FireTV, etc.) only develop the App with the cooperaton of the streaming service. All such Dish or TiVo boxes will launch the app that connects you DIRECTLY to the streaming service..

 

[KAB]

Aside: Not all Netflix apps support HDR. My Samsung TV supports HDR, but the TV's 2015 app does not. 4k Roku doesn't either. It takes a Roku Ultra for HDR.

And less expensive Premier+.