Distant Network Shutoff on December 1st?

[Greg Bimson]

I believe this came out by the FCC at some point after the '04 SHVERA legislation as some sort of clarification or new rule by the FCC and it applied to new customers or new requests for distants by existing customers for any satellite company. I don't know if it was really part of the original bill but maybe someone else can confirm.

It basically insured the grandfather status wasn't in any way "portable", so I doubt congress thought it up all on their own.

I think it is a bit different than that...

The courts determined that the portability of grandfathered subscribers was possible, but in order for that to work, the two satellite companies would have to work together. Couple that with the original ruling in 2003 that Dish Network never provided the court with a list of grandfathered subscribers, DirecTV could not accept a "grandfathered" subscriber from Dish Network as Dish Network technnically didn't have any.

Then the SHVERA came along, and the portability appeared to be removed, as there is a delineation between qualifications for new and old subscribers.

 

[waltinvt]

I think it is a bit different than that...

The courts determined that the portability of grandfathered subscribers was possible, but in order for that to work, the two satellite companies would have to work together. Couple that with the original ruling in 2003 that Dish Network never provided the court with a list of grandfathered subscribers, DirecTV could not accept a "grandfathered" subscriber from Dish Network as Dish Network technnically didn't have any.

Then the SHVERA came along, and the portability appeared to be removed, as there is a delineation between qualifications for new and old subscribers.

I certainly see your point but was the bit about "no analog distants if your carrier has analog LiLs always part of SHVERA or something the FCC announced later?

I'm probably mixed up but it seems like there was something the FCC came out with later that wasn't in the original legislation. Maybe I'm thinking about the signal testing (appeal) option being waived if your satellite provider carried analog LiLs. Maybe I drempt it.

 

[srbond]

This is NOT true at all - you do NOT have to take locals even if they ARE available in your market. And they will lower your bill $3 from the "listed" prices of all TC packages.

I KNOW this for a fact because I have MANY D* customers that still don't get locals through them...

Good deal... thanks for the info!

 

[tigershere]

networks put it on the net a few hours later now including FOX but they won't take the offer. hell i know some that hate the network commercials so much they watch the prime time shows the next day

I doubt 09 they cut off analog. Someone will push it back or the Gov will give out TV stamps to those that can't afford a new TV

 

[nitstalker]

What im wondering is its been nearly a week since the ruling and Charlie isnt standing on his pulpit yet... Where is the 'emergency chats' and the saveourdumbasses.com website and the write and call your legislature crap?

It is awfully strange that the E* camp is keeping so silent about this

 

[minnow]

No word out yet because Charlie and his minnions are too busy straightening our old wire clothes hangers to form into "new" OTA antenna's for all us DBS subs who are 30 days out from getting it right in our shorts.

 

[navychop]

tigershere:

It's in law now, not regs. Feb 17, 2009 is when NTSC (analog) OTA transmissions go away. Each household gets 2 $40 coupons to apply to buying a digital tuner to feed your set. I think they set aside $1.5B to cover it. I doubt they'll spend it all.

Why? Because just like when Berlin terminated analog transmissions, almost nobody noticed. Most people get their TV via cable or satellite. Those won't change. They'll just feed the digital signal instead of the old analog one. For the roughly 15% who only get OTA TV, they'll use the coupons. Most folks that have secondary TVs that rely solely upon OTA will probably want to chuck the old TV in favor of getting a nice new thin widescreen HDTV, most of which will have built in digital tuners (now mandated). Prices are going down fast. I'm hearing $500 for a 30" widescreen LCD by Xmas 2007. I'll bet the 2008 end of year holiday season will see those sets flying off the shelves.

 

[tigershere]

dang i was kidding about TV stamps, lol, go figure

 

[Greg Bimson]

I certainly see your point but was the bit about "no analog distants if your carrier has analog LiLs always part of SHVERA or something the FCC announced later?

Walt, you are correct. The "no distants if locals available] was placed into the SHVERA and signed into law in December, 2004.

However, the courts already determined that "grandfathering" is portable, because the status resides with the customer, not the satellite provider. The problem is in order for the status to reside with the customer, the satellite provider must have their records in order to recoginze their grandfather status.

Of course, that is one of the reasons Dish Network was put in this situation. Dish Network did not provide the courts a list with any grandfathered subscribers. Therefore, the courts were basically told by Dish Network that they didn't have any grandfathered subscribers.

 

[waltinvt]

Walt, you are correct. The "no distants if locals available] was placed into the SHVERA and signed into law in December, 2004.

However, the courts already determined that "grandfathering" is portable, because the status resides with the customer, not the satellite provider. The problem is in order for the status to reside with the customer, the satellite provider must have their records in order to recoginze their grandfather status.

Of course, that is one of the reasons Dish Network was put in this situation. Dish Network did not provide the courts a list with any grandfathered subscribers. Therefore, the courts were basically told by Dish Network that they didn't have any grandfathered subscribers.

Hmm, I'll be surprised if I have this straight but here goes.
Since grandfather status was ruled portable by the courts, that means those legally grandfathered to distants with Dish should normally be able to legally transfer that status to DirectTV then - right?

Now if Dish didn't provide the courts with those records, then how can they provide customers wanting to switch to "D" with them either?

So where switching customers might normally have been able to keep their distants by switching to "D", they won't be able to now unless they have copies of those records.

Seems like grounds for civil suits to me.

 

[boy921]

Hmm, I'll be surprised if I have this straight but here goes.
Since grandfather status was ruled portable by the courts, that means those legally grandfathered to distants with Dish should normally be able to legally transfer that status to DirectTV then - right?

From what I have read, if you are grandfathered and were to cancel your DNS with E*, then later try to reactivate it with E*, you no longer qualify. The grandfathering dies.

So where switching customers might normally have been able to keep their distants by switching to "D", they won't be able to now unless they have copies of those records.

Switching to D* may require a requalification process.

 

[Greg Bimson]

And Walt, you are correct. Trust me, when the stuff hits the fan on 1 December, there will be a large line of lawyers waiting to hear this one.

That is why we haven't heard anything other than positive news from Dish Network. They don't wish to alert anyone to problems now that they'll have to abide by the injunction. Once people, especially those that had no other access to networks, lose their distant network feeds, there will be some mightily angry subscribers finding out who was at fault. Any lawyer with a modicum of intellect will look to see that Dish Network presented no evidence for their "grandfathered" subscribers, and press for a class-action lawsuit.

 

[TNGTony]

And after that dust settles, affected subscribers will get two free PPV movies and a letter of apology while the lawers make millions!

See ya
Tony

 

[Tower Guy]

Since grandfather status was ruled portable by the courts, that means those legally grandfathered to distants with Dish should normally be able to legally transfer that status to DirectTV then - right?

Now if Dish didn't provide the courts with those records, then how can they provide customers wanting to switch to "D" with them either?

Is it possible that E* figured that a loss in courts was inevitable and didn't want to provide their customers the documents that would be required to switch their DNS to D*?

 

[ThomasRz]

There is no basis for such a suit. Subscribers do not have a constitutionally protected property interest in receiving DNS. The law merely permitted delivery of signals that would have been otherwise been prohibited. I have no doubt that there is some lawyer somewhere that will try and make a buck on this. But it ain't going anywhere. It's really very simple - if you qualify for DNS under the unserved/RV rules, D* will be more than happy to sign you up. A court is not going to be very sympathetic to someone who wants DNS (even if legitimately grandfathered) because of time shifting, convenience, or the "I want it!" attitude. The public policy behind all this is to ensure that everyone has access to network programming if it is technologically possible. There is a bias towards the local affiliate but DNS is there for those who cannot get one or more networks via OTA or LIL. The statutory license was created for this purpose - not to give consumers a smorgasbord of network stations from which to choose. As Greg B. has pointed out (again and again), E* or D* or X* can deliver Wxxx or Kxxx to you - once they have the permission of the copyright owners and local station, if applicable. 17 USC 119/122 is simply a way to shortcircuit this arduous task to, believe it or not, benefit the consumer. Don't be greedy.

And Walt, you are correct. Trust me, when the stuff hits the fan on 1 December, there will be a large line of lawyers waiting to hear this one.

That is why we haven't heard anything other than positive news from Dish Network. They don't wish to alert anyone to problems now that they'll have to abide by the injunction. Once people, especially those that had no other access to networks, lose their distant network feeds, there will be some mightily angry subscribers finding out who was at fault. Any lawyer with a modicum of intellect will look to see that Dish Network presented no evidence for their "grandfathered" subscribers, and press for a class-action lawsuit.

 

[horza1337]

Simple as this: E* #$%#$ up, E* customers get #$%@#$%# . D* didn't #$%@#$%#$ up, D* customers don't get #$%@#$%@#$%.

 

[neljtorres]

Everyone is doomed with this whole crapy mess!

 

[Hall]

Is it possible that E* figured that a loss in courts was inevitable and didn't want to provide their customers the documents that would be required to switch their DNS to D*?

That's a nice idea but I think Dish's recent spell of court cases shows that they go full speed ahead thinking they'll win and do NOT contemplate the scenario that they might lose.

 

[hokie94]

So has anyone asked E* for their grandfathered status in writing and taken it to D* to see if D* will accomadate it?

 

[tomdkat]

response from dish to me

Based upon a recent court ruling, on December 1st, 2006, there will be
some changes to your DISH Network programming. Rest assured, you will be
able to continue to receive your local networks and other great
programming that DISH Network currently provides. Unfortunately, we will
be no longer able to provide Distant Networks to customers regardless of
past qualifications.

Distant networks are the ABC, NBC, CBS and FOX broadcast channels that
originate from a market outside the community in which our customers
live. Federal law prohibits all satellite and cable companies from
providing these channels to consumers except in very limited
circumstances.

The local ABC, NBC, CBS or FOX network programming in your market will
not be affected.

Our customer service representatives do not have any additional
information. Over the next few days, tune to channel 240 or visit
www.dishnetwork.com to learn more.

We apologize for the inconvenience and thank you for being a loyal DISH
Network customer.