Distant Network Shutoff on December 1st?

[JP Threw]

I know that come Dec. 1 Distant Networks will be turned off. When will Dish Network be able to offer Distant Networks again to legally qualified people? 1 month, 6 months, 1 year? If this has been posted before I must have mised it.
Thanks, JP

 

[JohnH]

Permanent Injunction.

 

[MikeD-C05]

They will have gone off the air by February of 2009 anyway, due to the mandatory Analog tv shut off. So we are only 2 years and 2 months early here.

 

[Sparkman]

Tell me more about Expressvu.

Go to the Canadian Satellite Forum, all the information you could want is there.

 

[odbrv]

The CBS HD is not a distant network. Its classified as a Special Feed from CBS to CBS viewers in CBS O&O Areas.

However,I was grandfathered for distant networks and now get CBSHD on 9484. I assume that when I lose my distants I will also loose CBS-hd. I do not believe Lubbock is an O&O area. I also believe their are thousands like me who will loose CBS-HD unless the following occurs:
Senate Bill S.2644, Which Was Passed In Nov 04 Said,"this Legislation Gives The Federal Communications Commission Two Years To Develop A Map Of The United States That Shows Which Households Do Not Receive A Digital Over The Air Signal". Consumers In Areas That Are Not Able To Receive A Digital Signal Will Be Eligible To Receive A National High Definition Network Feeds For Nbc, Cbs, Abc, And Fox. This Can Only Be Done, However, If The Satellite Company First Provides The Local Analog Stations. This Is Called The Digital White Area. This Bill Was Introduced By Senator John Ensign Of Nevada. This Bill Was Adopted As Part Of The Omnibus Spending Bill Approved By The U.s. Senate. I Hope This Information Is Helpful.

 

[TNGTony]

I know we have had a long, heated debate about CBS HD, its status, and how qualifications work before, but this I am sure of: this injunction has absolutely NOTHING to do with CBS HD. This injuction is about the ANALOG ABC, CBS, NBC and Fox distant network channels ONLY and nothing else.

One more time, I think I will say it a little louder so I can be heard
CBS HD is NOT affected by this court decision.
There may be something else going on with this station, but the court decision does not affect CBS HD.

Just to make sure everyone understands
Super Stations are NOT affected by this court decision either
CW Distant Channels are NOT affected by this court decision
Other TV networks on dish like Pax and TBN are not affected by this decision
US Spanish Language TV networks like Univision, Telemundo, Telefutura are not affected by this decision
Significantly viewed network channels from adjacent markets obtained under the new rules instated in 2004 are unaffected by this ruling.

See ya
Tony

 

[waltinvt]

Hey Tony, I live in Vt. Is my distant CBS-HD out of NY affected by this court decision?

 

[navychop]

:haha

 

[Greg Bimson]

I am not being a nay-sayer, but...

Just because one stands upon a mountain top preaching the mantra does not necessarily mean it is correct. We go through this time and time again, so here it goes:

1) If CBS obtained all copyright clearances upstream for the CBS HD feed and then signed an agreement with Dish Network to show it in owned-and-operated areas, then nothing will happen with the CBS HD feed.

2) If CBS did not obtain all copyright clearances from the upstream copyright holders (such as odbrv's case, where a non-O&O local channel can claim him as a viewer), it means that Dish Network is using the license that will be affected by the injunction. Which also means some (if not all) CBS HD subscribers will be impacted by a cut-off due to the injunction.

 

[TNGTony]

And just because some one says its so over and over doesn't make it so either. I won't get into the argument again. I will state the fact that CBS HD is available on Dish via contract between CBS and Dish. The affected analog networks ABC, CBS, NBC and Fox are available on Dish via SHVA/SHVIA legislation (this is what the court case is about). EVEN if you are right Greg (and I am convinced you are not), the court decision does not specifically mention this feed. Dish, doing what they do best, will follow the letter and not the spirit of the ruling.

See ya
Tony

 

[Greg Bimson]

I won't get into the argument again. I will state the fact that CBS HD is available on Dish via contract between CBS and Dish.

Let me then make this argument easy...

Let's say that the local channels find out about the "movers" and go to court. Let's say an analysis is done with the data, and based on discrepancies between billing and service addresses, that over 20 percent of the local channel subscribers have "moved".

Now, based on the exact same law, the penalty for willful infringment because Dish Network didn't do any due diligence for the movers is the "death penalty", i.e., an injunction on the local channel license. Just because there are carriage contracts between Dish Network and the local broadcasters does not preclude the injunction if the contract is using the copyright license. In other words, if the "death penalty" were ever issued for local channels, all local channels would be removed, even though there are contracts.

Just because Dish Network has a contract with CBS for the HD feed doesn't mean the contract doesn't use the copyright exceptions granted in the SHVIA.

Like I said, either CBS HD has obtained all copyright clerances from their programmers which means there will be no cut-off, or CBS HD used the SHVIA to clear the copyrights which means CBS HD will be cut-off. The only question is how the CBS HD/Echostar agreement is structured: Does it use the SHVIA or not?

Edit: It is my belief that the contract between CBS and Dish Network for the HD feed is simply a blanket waiver. Therefore, it is my belief that CBS HD will be affected by the injunction, and Dish Network will have to terminate CBS HD. I only base this on the fact that to me, this simply appears to be a blanket waiver.

EVEN if you are right Greg (and I am convinced you are not), the court decision does not specifically mention this feed. Dish, doing what they do best, will follow the letter and not the spirit of the ruling.

The court decision simply states an injunction is issued to take effect 1 December, 2006, against the use of the copyright license granted in section 17 USC 119 for the big four networks. That license controls both the analog and the digital distant feeds. Dish Network is now prohibited from using that license to sell distants of the big four networks, both analog and digital.

 

[Derwin0]

this injunction has absolutely NOTHING to do with CBS HD.

Why not, after all, the CBS HD feeds do include syndicated shows (aka Dr. Phil) that CBS does NOT own. And since these stations are provided to O&O markets where other stations own those particular rights, such as San Francisco, then the only way CBSHD can be provided is to use the DNS license.

 

[odbrv]

I have sent the following letter to my 2 Senators and Congressman, I hope you all will do the same immediately:
A judge in Florida has put an injunction on The Dish Network. Effective Dec 1 I will loose the ability to get distant TV Networks. This injunction nullifies two laws passed by congress, the Satellite Home Viewer Act of 1988, as amended by the Satellite Home Viewer Improvement Act of 1999 and Senate Bill S.2644. I am grandfathered by the 1999 bill to be able to receive distant networks and have waivers from all my local networks to receive distant networks. All this goes away Dec 1st
One of your fellow Congressmen made the following comment:
The 11th Circuit's ruling requires EchoStar to shut down all retransmission of distant network signals, even to households that are legally entitled to receive them under SHVA. In my view, this injunction goes too far and effectively punishes hundreds of thousands of consumers in remote rural areas who have done nothing illegal. Unfortunately, as a member of Congress, I cannot intervene in a particular legal dispute while it is pending before the courts. By constitutional design, there is a virtual "brick wall" between the legislative and judicial branches of government. However, now that EchoStar has exhausted its appeals, I hope that Congress will consider legislation in the near future to help rural consumers who have lost access to broadcast programming as a result of the 11th Circuit's decision."
Please introduce a bill to get my rights back prior to Dec 1st. A move to Direct TV is not cost feasible .I have close to $4,000 invested in Dish Equipment. Why should cable TV be required to carry networks and Satellite TV be not allowed to carry those same networks. This is technologically illogical.

 

[Greg Bimson]

Effective Dec 1 I will loose the ability to get distant TV Networks. This injunction nullifies two laws passed by congress, the Satellite Home Viewer Act of 1988, as amended by the Satellite Home Viewer Improvement Act of 1999 and Senate Bill S.2644.

I need to point something out here...

This injunction does not nullify anything. As a matter of fact, the judge followed the SHVA and the SHVIA to the letter. The judge also complied with the mandate set forth by the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals.

Congress put in the law a "death penalty", for a pattern or practice of willful infringment. So, the judge simply followed the law which Congress created. The law certainly wasn't nullified.

 

[odbrv]

I need to point something out here...

This injunction does not nullify anything. As a matter of fact, the judge followed the SHVA and the SHVIA to the letter. The judge also complied with the mandate set forth by the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals.

Congress put in the law a "death penalty", for a pattern or practice of willful infringment. So, the judge simply followed the law which Congress created. The law certainly wasn't nullified.

Great!!! the law was not nullified just all my rights given by it. I guess the law was written terribly to allow this to happen . So now I am asking Congress to get it right. I will update my letter to get it precise enough that all the politicians out there have a harder time wiggling out of it. One Congressman saw my point and agreed the injunction would hurt the innocent. Maybe some more will come to the same conclusion.

 

[srbond]

I Cancelled Dish's Free Local Preview

yest...

And if I lose my distants.... that will be about $7.00 off the bill.

 

[mikew]

Please introduce a bill to get my rights back prior to Dec 1st. A move to Direct TV is not cost feasible .I have close to $4,000 invested in Dish Equipment. Why should cable TV be required to carry networks and Satellite TV be not allowed to carry those same networks. This is technologically illogical.

$4000 in equipment??? Unless you purchased several 9xx DVRs, I don't see how that could be. I wouldn't consider money used to purchase satellite receiving equipment as an "investment".

I don't understand why you are so concerned about losing distants. Lubbock is served by Dish Network so you will still have access to network programming.

I think one of the biggest issues here is that many people sub to distants because they don't like their local affiliates. Distants were intended to provide network programming to folks who had no access to them. If you really live in Lubbock and want to plead with Congress to give you distants, I think your going to land on deaf ears.

 

[odbrv]

$4000 in equipment??? Unless you purchased several 9xx DVRs, I don't see how that could be. I wouldn't consider money used to purchase satellite receiving equipment as an "investment".

I don't understand why you are so concerned about losing distants. Lubbock is served by Dish Network so you will still have access to network programming.

I think one of the biggest issues here is that many people sub to distants because they don't like their local affiliates. Distants were intended to provide network programming to folks who had no access to them. If you really live in Lubbock and want to plead with Congress to give you distants, I think your going to land on deaf ears.

Yes I did purchase 2 Dish in the box systems for around $2,000. The JVC D-VHS was $799. The 4900 was $399. Then we had the upgrades to the 2 622s. In addition, there has been installation costs. The figure is approaching $4,000. If you add in my C-band equipment that was an additional $5,000. Yes that is factual costs that people outside cable areas and OTA reception really had to pay to get TV.It was with C-band that all this network protectionism started and rights given any satellite subscriber to get network broadcasts. Since you could not see that, the rest of your statement carries about the same amount of "you cannot see it." I am having distants taken away from me which were grandfathered under law and granted by local network waivers which are still in effect. Yes you cannot see it . The injunction will hurt me directly. Try to be proactive and help out other E* subscribers who will be hurt as I will. The court punished me as well as Dish. My punishment was not deserved. Laws were in place to protect me. This court simply killed my rights.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

For a nice history lesson of this entire mess check out the following from our friends at TransmitterNews.COM

http://www.transmitternews.com/NewsWire/102306newsletter.html#H1

 

[TheForce]

Greg Bimson: "2) If CBS did not obtain all copyright clearances from the upstream copyright holders (such as odbrv's case, where a non-O&O local channel can claim him as a viewer), it means that Dish Network is using the license that will be affected by the injunction. Which also means some (if not all) CBS HD subscribers will be impacted by a cut-off due to the injunction."

TNGTony- "And just because some one says its so over and over doesn't make it so either. I won't get into the argument again. I will state the fact that CBS HD is available on Dish via contract between CBS and Dish. The affected analog networks ABC, CBS, NBC and Fox are available on Dish via SHVA/SHVIA legislation (this is what the court case is about). EVEN if you are right Greg (and I am convinced you are not), the court decision does not specifically mention this feed. Dish, doing what they do best, will follow the letter and not the spirit of the ruling.
"

Greg has addressed my concern, and Tony- I heard you loud and clear, 5 by 9 but everyone is referring to the "CBS O&O" deal until now. As Greg differentiated in his post, those who obtained the CBS HD channel through waiver ( NOT in an O&O covered market) may lose it. Then you stated that since the court ruling has ONLY addressed analog channel feeds, it doesn't apply. TNGTony- I hope you are right. I'd like to keep what I have until 2008, which BTW is the shutoff date for all waivers anyway. Or at least the date when all waivers will require renewal or shut off.

I thank both of you for your posts. While I appreciate that both of you can only offer an opinion, I think the opinions here, Tony, should offer some reassurance as to what is and is not affected. At least to me, anyway!