Distant Network Shutoff on December 1st?

[dishrich]

I don't know if this has been brought up but what about PBS? There are 2 sets of people who have can get National PBS

-those with distants
-those who have National PBS in their locals because their area doesn't have a PBS

What will happen to those people? Will they lose PBS?

Well, since the injunction SPECIFICALLY only mentions ABC, CBS, NBC & FOX, I would bet that either of these folks WILL be safe, since they technically are/were qualified to have it.

I haven't seen a thing mentioned anywhere about it, but with everything else E* is having to screw around with & since they are NOT in trouble for it, they may just leave it alone.

 

[Mr Tony]

I know the only way to get PBS was if your locals weren't available on Dish. Once your locals were available, even if you didnt ask for them, you still lost PBS.

I'm assuming the areas with Nat'l PBS as their "local" PBS are OK

 

[dishrich]

I know the only way to get PBS was if your locals weren't available on Dish. Once your locals were available, even if you didnt ask for them, you still lost PBS.

Well, I still managed to keep it w/my Denver LIL's - I'm curious to see what happens when I loose my NY/LA distants...

 

[srbond]

I don't know if this has been brought up but what about PBS? There are 2 sets of people who have can get National PBS

-those with distants
-those who have National PBS in their locals because their area doesn't have a PBS

What will happen to those people? Will they lose PBS?

I just lost my DNS only for ABC, CBS, NBC, and Fox... I still have distant CW, and misc 'superstations' plus the national PBS.

Green Bay locals have been offered to me for years.

My question is why can the local cable company offer both Green Bay and Milwaukee locals in my town (I live halfway between the two cities), but the sat. companies only offer me Green Bay?

 

[Mr Tony]

I just lost my DNS only for ABC, CBS, NBC, and Fox... I still have distant CW, and misc 'superstations' plus the national PBS.

CW isnt part of it and neither are the Supers. I have both too.

My question is why can the local cable company offer both Green Bay and Milwaukee locals in my town (I live halfway between the two cities), but the sat. companies only offer me Green Bay?

different rules set forth. Cable rules were "pick it up OTA...show it on cable". satellite has DMA's. Where I use to live, cable had both Minneapolis & Duluth locals. As Duluth started shutting down the translator station towers near the cable company, the channels left leaving us Minneapolis that they were getting via Dish
(when we got really heavy rain storms you'd see the "searching for signal" screen)

 

[dishrich]

My question is why can the local cable company offer both Green Bay and Milwaukee locals in my town (I live halfway between the two cities), but the sat. companies only offer me Green Bay?

Because for the most part, they have chosen NOT to, for various reason's.
The bulk of the "Significantly Viewed" locals (which is what you are talking about) they have deployed, is ONLY to fill in any missing "big 4" networks in areas that do NOT have locals for those same nets. (eg: In parts of the Terre Haute market, they offer ABC out of Indy, because TH does NOT have their own local ABC)

BUT it doesn't matter for E* at this point - they will NO longer be able to offer ANY SV channels after 12/1 - period. (others here don't think it's true, but most people seem to agree that it is)

 

[srbond]

CW isnt part of it and neither are the Supers. I have both too.

Thanks for the info...

Is it me, or does it seem odd that the locals who provide 'the big four' are the only ones who will benefit from this, and those who provide CW (UPN and WB), etc are left to hang?

 

[dishrich]

Cthe channels left leaving us Minneapolis that they were getting via Dish
(when we got really heavy rain storms you'd see the "searching for signal" screen)

Lovely, so your cable co. was rebroadcasting ALREADY "processed" (read compressed) signals - I bet those looked good by the time they hit your house.

 

[srbond]

Because for the most part, they have chosen NOT to, for various reason's.
The bulk of the "Significantly Viewed" locals (which is what you are talking about) they have deployed, is ONLY to fill in any missing "big 4" networks in areas that do NOT have locals for those same nets. (eg: In parts of the Terre Haute market, they offer ABC out of Indy, because TH does NOT have their own local ABC)

BUT it doesn't matter for E* at this point - they will NO longer be able to offer ANY SV channels after 12/1 - period. (others here don't think it's true, but most people seem to agree that it is)

I'm leaning towards Ice's statement, that it is a legality that they cannot offer me Milwaukee, since they do carry those locals as well.

 

[bacchus101]

I am not sure I fully understand the law in this matter. I live in the Presque isle DMA. If I could get cable (which I can not) I would get the Bangor DMA locals even though they can not be received OTA except for CBS which is the only provider in my DMA. When the Bangor Locals go live on Dish before the end of this year would I then be entitled to them as locals or would they be considered SV's and fall under the same rules as my DNS?

 

[dishrich]

I'm leaning towards Ice's statement, that it is a legality that they cannot offer me Milwaukee, since they do carry those locals as well.

Well maybe for YOUR area, but there ARE some areas right NOW where E* IS carrying 2 of the same networks from 2 different areas...

In the Terre Haute area I just told you about, they ALSO carry a 2nd NBC from Indy as well, even though there is ALREADY a local NBC in TH.

In some parts of the Baton Rouge, LA DMA, they carry ALL 4 of main NETS from the Jackson, MS PLUS the carry a 2nd PBS & MYTV affilate from Jackson as well. This in spite of the fact Baton Rouge ALREADY has actual locals for ALL of these networks carried as well - so parts of the Jackson DMA gets TWO of pretty much everything!

In parts of the Baltimore DMA, they ALSO get ABC, CBS & NBC all from Washington DC, - of course you realize Baltimore has these same networks as well.

So I stand by my original statement, INCLUDING the part about it being a moot point after 12/1.

You can see ALL the SV areas right here:
http://ekb.dbstalk.com/19

 

[TNGTony]

First off...

Cable has one set of laws.

Satellite has another set of laws.

Comaring the two for locals is litterally comparing apples and oranges. Different beasts.

As for the question: Bangor channels will never, ever, ever be considered Presque Isle locals for satellite subscribers unless 1)the law is changed or 2)Presque Isle is folded back into the Bangor TV market and ceases to exist.

See ya
Tony
--------------------
Greg is always right (except CBS HD...so far)

 

[dishrich]

First off...

Cable has one set of laws.

Satellite has another set of laws.

Right, while I agree with this, would you not also agree that BOTH DBS providers have NOT been as aggressive in rolling out SV as much as they could?
For the most part, it seems to have been used mostly to "fill in" any missing big 4 networks.

 

[bacchus101]

I wonder why the Presque Isle DMA was ever created......sheesh!

When Distant networks first became available I could not get any of them because WAGM Presque Isle carried all 4 networks! (just pick and choose the worst programs from all 4 networks and you get an idea of the nightly viewing line-up)

Presque Isle should be folded into the Bangor DMA as there is only one channel and it might as well be independent. With the Bangor locals running on cable it seems that as far as the cable market goes it is part of the greater Bangor area.

I just might have to "move" to Bangor.....

 

[srbond]

Here is the letter I'm sending to the president of the NAB.

They don't list his email address on the site, but using some logic based on some other emails listed, I believe it is: drehr@nab.org.

I know the letter will not get my DNS back... but it gives me some closure to this multi-year issue.



----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David K. Rehr,
President & CEO
NAB

I am very disappointed in the NAB's stance against EchoStar regarding distant signal regulation.

Since EchoStar has lost the right to broadcast distant signals, I have also lost my ability to view ABC, CBS, NBC and Fox. I am grandfathered to legally receive distant signals from New York and Los Angeles (and have been enjoying those distinct channels for over seven years), but being that SHVIA is non-portable, I will lose that status.

Personally, I do not want to be forced to watch Green Bay network television (I live in Fond du Lac, WI). As a former broadcaster myself, I have no desire to watch small/medium market television. Local TV holds no value for me and as for local news; I can get all I want for free on the internet.

Adding artificial constraints on what I can and cannot watch protects an archaic form of retransmission and amounts to nothing more than a futile attempt to protect the interests of a few broadcasters.

Today's technology allows me to view any station from anywhere in the world, but the 'law' says that I can only view the closest station to my home, and for what purpose?

As the lawsuits fly to protect this archaic form of broadcast television, I'll be streaming "Lost" legally and free from ABC.com. CBS and NBC also offer many prime-time shows on-line. Progress cannot be stopped and the local affiliates cannot be protected forever.

As streaming television shows are becoming more and more viable… will the NAB try to stop that too?

Plain and simple, if I lose my distant signals, NBC, CBS, ABC and FOX will go unwatched in my household… I'll stay with the non-broadcast channels.

The good news is that of my family's (demos: 38 year old male, 38 year old female, 9 year old male, 6 year old female, and 4 year old male) viewership of broadcast television currently only makes up about 15% of our total viewership... and thanks in part to you, it will soon be 0%.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Mr Tony]

Lovely, so your cable co. was rebroadcasting ALREADY "processed" (read compressed) signals - I bet those looked good by the time they hit your house.

yep. Gotta love the 12 channel cable system we had back then (1999)

 

[Mr Tony]

I am not sure I fully understand the law in this matter. I live in the Presque isle DMA. If I could get cable (which I can not) I would get the Bangor DMA locals even though they can not be received OTA except for CBS which is the only provider in my DMA. When the Bangor Locals go live on Dish before the end of this year would I then be entitled to them as locals or would they be considered SV's and fall under the same rules as my DNS?

no. You are in the Presque Isle DMA which has PBS, CBS and I guess FOX now (due to the CBS adding it to their digital channel). So right now (hate to say it) you are SOL if the distants go down.

 

[Mr Tony]

I wonder why the Presque Isle DMA was ever created......sheesh!

same reason 1 channel DMA"s like Mankato, MN Lafayette, IN and Glendive, MT were created. They wanted a monopoly in the area (I guess)

When Distant networks first became available I could not get any of them because WAGM Presque Isle carried all 4 networks! (just pick and choose the worst programs from all 4 networks and you get an idea of the nightly viewing line-up)

I read about that. Glendive MT is the only station left that does part of the Big 3 (CBS from 6-9 and NBC from 9-10)

Presque Isle should be folded into the Bangor DMA as there is only one channel and it might as well be independent. With the Bangor locals running on cable it seems that as far as the cable market goes it is part of the greater Bangor area.

Mankato, MN is the same way. One channel (CBS). Cable gets all the Minneapolis stations including CBS and ABC from nearby Austin, MN (another DMA). DirecTV added Mankato and gave them the other 3 nets from Mpls along with CBS Mankato and WB

I just might have to "move" to Bangor.....

that would be the easiest option if you do lose the distants

 

[bacchus101]

Today, WLBZ and WVII-TV of Bangor, Maine act as the de-facto NBC and ABC affiliates, respectfully, for the market, though available only by cable.

*Sigh*

I am going to come right out and admit I called DirecTV today and they will give me a dual tuner R15 to replace my single tuner PVR508 for free and I'll get distants and a few extra channels for the same price I am paying now.

Going to hold off as long as there is still a chance of keeping DNS on Dish as I have been a customer forever and I am loyal........to a point.

 

[ThomasRz]

same reason 1 channel DMA"s like Mankato, MN Lafayette, IN and Glendive, MT were created. They wanted a monopoly in the area (I guess)

.....

Now, I know that you know that the DMAs are defined by Nielsen for purposes other than DBS. While there is a certain logic to it (to a point), it was primarily done this way to avoid er, spitting contests on which communities belonged to which viewing regions. Can you imagine doing it from scratch? You'll have every hamlet in New York demanding to be part of NYC (or at least a goodly number). Perhaps some radius from the existing towers would work but then that could lead to game playing as well. Urban areas are pretty obvious. As the level of bucolicity increase the contours (pun intended) of the viewing area are less distinct.