Distant HD for "white areas"...

[davec53]

hey! long time reader, first time poster!! this is a fantastic resource, and i'm so happy that you guys are here providing help to one another.

ok...i'm gonna probably be one of the folks up at 2am EST tuesday night, calling dish and asking for a 622. i have a 522 right now, so i'm SD all the way. i recently purchased a HDTV, though, and i'm ready to step on up to HD, now that the channel offerings seem to be expanding.

here is my question, and i can't seem to make out a clear answer from any of the threads i've seen so far.

i live in a "white area". even with an antenna outside, WAY up on a hilltop, i'd be lucky to pick up any of the signals from the closest affiliates. (I live in a small place called West Liberty, KY, and we are about 100 miles from Lexington, KY and Huntington, WVA, the 2 closest markets).

When i signed up for Dish, they pretty much said, "yep...you are in a white area, here ya go...", and gave me the locals out of Lexington. I also requested, and received, the locals from Denver, CO (to get more football choices, or have a 2nd chance at catching a show i missed or forgot to record).

now...when i step up to HD, from what i'm gathering, they'll still give me my SD locals out of Lexington (they offer HD there, but it probably won't be uplinked for a while). however, since i'm in a "white area", will i not also be able to request distant locals from like NY and LA??

from one of the threads i read on here, it sounds like i won't, but i can't make any sense of that, since i can get SD distant locals.

thanks for the help, and here's hoping the phone lines aren't too busy 2/1!!!

 

[davec53]

i also wanted to clarify...

there were no waivers i had to get when i signed up. since i was in an area where no signal could be received, i was granted the ability to sign up for my locals and other distant locals, no sweat.

that's why i was wondering if maybe the same would apply for HD distant locals for those of us in the "white areas".

 

[waltinvt]

There are many, many of us in "white areas" and there are many, many posts about the problems associated with that.

In a nutshell, even though we've had various SHIVA, SHIVERA & SHVERA legislation enacted, Dish is still apparently a little paranoid / cautious about tempting the courts on HD DNS issues without more protection, some of which should come in May in the form of digital specific signal testing availability.

In the meantime, I think they just don't think it's worth it to invest $$ to only provide HD DNS to the same limited few "D" does.

 

[rdinkel]

There are many, many of us in "white areas" and there are many, many posts about the problems associated with that.

In a nutshell, even though we've had various SHIVA, SHIVERA & SHVERA legislation enacted, Dish is still apparently a little paranoid / cautious about tempting the courts on HD DNS issues without more protection, some of which should come in May in the form of digital specific signal testing availability.

In the meantime, I think they just don't think it's worth it to invest $$ to only provide HD DNS to the same limited few "D" does.

Walt, Why would it be costing them any more? If the signals are on the birds, I see it as only an authorization issue. Bob

 

[waltinvt]

Walt, Why would it be costing them any more? If the signals are on the birds, I see it as only an authorization issue. Bob

I don't know all the technical aspects but maybe there'd be costs associated with setting up temporary one day codes to just certain receiver numbers versus just certain zip codes. I don't know and agree it doens't make a lot of sense but sometimes a company will refuse to spend a dollar to gain $10 worth of goodwill.

 

[rdinkel]

I don't know all the technical aspects but maybe there'd be costs associated with setting up temporary one day codes to just certain receiver numbers versus just certain zip codes. I don't know and agree it doens't make a lot of sense but sometimes a company will refuse to spend a dollar to gain $10 worth of goodwill.

I am not talking about one-day access. I am talking about turning the HD distants on and leaving them on for those who qualify.

 

[waltinvt]

I am not talking about one-day access. I am talking about turning the HD distants on and leaving them on for those who qualify.

Sorry Bob, I had another thread in my mind when I replied. Too much going on today

 

[ggw2000]

2nd That!!

I am not talking about one-day access. I am talking about turning the HD distants on and leaving them on for those who qualify.

Dish could turn on Digital (HD) distants to those with waivers or in white areas anytime that they wanted to with the blessing of the FCC. They have chosen to ignore us that can't get OTA. My local cable company has 3 of the 4 networks on line now. I will be making a decision in the next 60 days as to whether to go with cable or not. Right now i'm leaning towards cable if Charlies going to do nothing. He can then kiss another AEP + Supers + Analog Distants goodbye... Gerry

 

[davec53]

There are many, many of us in "white areas" and there are many, many posts about the problems associated with that.

In a nutshell, even though we've had various SHIVA, SHIVERA & SHVERA legislation enacted, Dish is still apparently a little paranoid / cautious about tempting the courts on HD DNS issues without more protection, some of which should come in May in the form of digital specific signal testing availability.

In the meantime, I think they just don't think it's worth it to invest $$ to only provide HD DNS to the same limited few "D" does.

i just wasn't able to find a post that dealt with this topic in a way i could really understand (very foggy about what all the SHIVA SHIVERA SHVERA stuff is), but i was kind of getting the gist that it didn't matter if you were in a "white area", Dish was still not going to offer you HD DNS via one of the major cities like NY or LA.

what i was confused about, was that i found a place on the Direct tv site that let you submit your address or zip code (can't remember which now), and it told you if you qualified for distant HD signals, and when i punched mine in, it said i was a "go" for everything except NBC, because it determined i MIGHT be close enough to Huntington, WVA to receive their signal, and would have to request a waiver to get NBC.

I just figured Dish was kind of doing the same thing, but the posts i was reading (if barely understanding! lol) were leading me to think that was not the case.

i just think it is sort of strange that if they've already determined that you cannot pick up a signal for your nearest local affiliates in SD, why would they think you can get the HD signal? i guess it is more a matter of really getting out and physically checking now, as opposed to just saying, "sure...you are good to go", over the phone.

this kinda sux, and makes me a little gunshy about going after a 622 right now, because a LOT of the tv i watch is on the networks. kind of thinking my best bet now might be to just wait until about may, and then try to get in on the $99 promotion and possible availability of HD DNS...but MAN, i'm dying to see a HD picture on my TV. lol

 

[waltinvt]

i just wasn't able to find a post that dealt with this topic in a way i could really understand (very foggy about what all the SHIVA SHIVERA SHVERA stuff is), but i was kind of getting the gist that it didn't matter if you were in a "white area", Dish was still not going to offer you HD DNS via one of the major cities like NY or LA.

what i was confused about, was that i found a place on the Direct tv site that let you submit your address or zip code (can't remember which now), and it told you if you qualified for distant HD signals, and when i punched mine in, it said i was a "go" for everything except NBC, because it determined i MIGHT be close enough to Huntington, WVA to receive their signal, and would have to request a waiver to get NBC.

I just figured Dish was kind of doing the same thing, but the posts i was reading (if barely understanding! lol) were leading me to think that was not the case.

i just think it is sort of strange that if they've already determined that you cannot pick up a signal for your nearest local affiliates in SD, why would they think you can get the HD signal? i guess it is more a matter of really getting out and physically checking now, as opposed to just saying, "sure...you are good to go", over the phone.

this kinda sux, and makes me a little gunshy about going after a 622 right now, because a LOT of the tv i watch is on the networks. kind of thinking my best bet now might be to just wait until about may, and then try to get in on the $99 promotion and possible availability of HD DNS...but MAN, i'm dying to see a HD picture on my TV. lol

The afilliates use what's called the "Longley-Rice prediction model" software which with various geographical information can "predict" whether you are likely to receive a grade "B" or better analog signal from a particular afilliate station's transmitter location.

The satellite companies use this same method to determine the likelyhood of you being granted a waiver by your local afilliate. Since the method was never "fool-proof", there used to be (in the SHIVA law) a option to appeal the prediction results and denial of waivers by requesting a signal test where if you didn't get a grade "B" or better signal, you were considered to be "unserved" and eligble for the distant signal plus the afilliate had to pay the cost of the test.

That option was in the law for analog signals but never specified for digital. It was also removed last year by the FCC for areas where the satellite company provided analog LiLs, the logic being that if sat provided your analog locals, you were automatically considered "served". Since it never had any digital wording to begin with, it kind of fell through the cracks. (accidently or delibertly is up for speculation).

The FCC last month stated (just before the deadline given in the '04 SHVERA law) that no new method of "prediction" is needed for digital beyond the existing L-R method. It did suggest that congress address some anomalies related to digital signals like "noise" and "multipath".

In any event, there is supposed to become available by April 30th of this year, to the top 100 DMAs, a testing method for digital signals. I think the rest of the DMAs are to follow next year.

Per the FCC: "if you are 'unserved' with respect to analog service, you are eligble for digital service." see: http://ftp.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/shvera.html

Also, there is nothing in the law that requires satellite to provide digital signals.

And finally, sometimes sat companies enter into special contracts direct with the network in which case existing SHVERA laws have little or no relevence. Apparently the up-coming, special one-day, ABC HD Superbowl feed Dish is providing to ONLY 10 cities this weeked is one of those deals.

 

[davec53]

waltinvt...

that does help clear things up a bit (and muddy others. lol).

but i see now what the situation is. since i get SD signal via Dish, i am now considered "served", and therefore will not necessarily get access to HD DNS signals because of that fact.

that really stinks, b/c that means about 60% of the reason i'd be upgrading to HD is just flushed down the toilet. i mean, HD HBO and ESPN and such will all be nice and good, but if i can't watch "My Name is Earl" in high def, what's the point? lol

 

[waltinvt]

waltinvt...

that does help clear things up a bit (and muddy others. lol).

but i see now what the situation is. since i get SD signal via Dish, i am now considered "served", and therefore will not necessarily get access to HD DNS signals because of that fact.

that really stinks, b/c that means about 60% of the reason i'd be upgrading to HD is just flushed down the toilet. i mean, HD HBO and ESPN and such will all be nice and good, but if i can't watch "My Name is Earl" in high def, what's the point? lol

Darn, I'll have to re-read my previous reply to see if I misspoke. It's entirely possible as I sometimes don't take the time I should to proof what I write.

In any event, whether or not your satellite company offers analog locals (LiLs) has nothing to do with whether you qualify for digital distants - it does however currently disqualify you from the "signal test" option as defined in SHIVA. A new and digitally specific signal test option is supposed to become available April 30th, which as I understand will work similar to how the old test rules were for analog. As to how or if Dish will use that to provide HD DNS, only time will tell. Of course the further "E" & "D" get toward offering HD LiLs in all DMAs, the less any of this distant qualification stuff matters.

 

[rdinkel]

Walt, If you had distant networks on 8 Dec 2004 (when law enacted) you are still allowed to get distants as long as you also subscribe to LILs. Bob

 

[waltinvt]

Walt, If you had distant networks on 8 Dec 2004 (when law enacted) you are still allowed to get distants as long as you also subscribe to LILs. Bob

Bob, I only had 2 of the 4 analog dns plus the CBS HD at that time but for some reason Dish gave me the 4th a few AFTER Dec 8th, so I was a little reluctant to say too much. The PQ on my LiLs was terrible anyway. Now if and when Dish offers HD LiLs, I know I will have to sub back to my analog LiLs by law, which I imagine would mean give up my distant analogs, which of course I won't need anyway. Walt