Dish's satellites present and future

[rocatman]

Making a few assumptions:

1. Sea Launch launches E11 sometime in April/May
2. In orbit testing etc makes it June/July available
3. They replace the spot capacity of E7 at 119 with E11
4. The satellite is as least as advanced as E10 (supposed to be more advanced)

Dish could move the HD LiL off of 61.5/129 and put on 119 on spots. They could also add a bunch more HD LiL to 119 spots.

This would give them about 5 TPs free on 61.5 (more on 129 but have to have mirrored under current set up). With 5 TPs they could do 15 channels of good quality HD or 20 Channels of HD lite. Without having to really change a thing elsewhere.

Now if they wanted to go all out HD lite they could add more HD to existing TPs that only have 3 channels on them. And they could force the MPEG-2 HD to MPEG-4, making the 6000/821/921/942 obsolete for HD.

Making all the above happen would probably allow Dish to squeeze on 40 more national HD channels. They would probably be able to carry the top 75 markets in HD on spots (a lot less than DIRECTV but covers most the population).

Question really is how long until they need 40 channels of HD?

Dish really needs Ciel-2 to get up to add a ton more spot capability to 129 (not to mention fix the reception problems people have with 129). With Ciel-2 I would speculate Dish will be able to provide LiL HD to the top 150 markets.

Hopefully Dish will file their E11 application to the FCC next month so we can finally see how much spot power E11 will have. If it is as good as E10 was with TP reuse and sticks to the 5 TPs that E7 is using it could get 50-60 spots, that could mean 40 new HD LiL markets.

A few comments to your assumptions/ideas. I think it would be a waste for Dish to only dedicate 5 TPs to E-11 for spotbeams since E-10 uses 10 TPs. The reuse capability goes way down with only 5 TPs to work with. Dish should move the 3 TPs worth of national HD off of 110 W to 61.5/129 and move 3 TPs worth of SD programming from 119 to 110 so E-11 could use 8 TPs for spotbeams. This would give Dish significant capacity for HD locals.

The capacity at 61.5 W is the problem and the failures with E-3 makes it worse. Currently Dish uses 4 TPs for HD locals at 61.5 W but also has 3 TPs that it can't use because of E-3 failures. There is probably room to free up another 3 TPs and maybe more if Dish gets FCC approval for regular use of TPs 23 and 24 and some of the internationals could also be moved to 118.7 or 121. Dish does need another satellite at 61.5 W and E-6 is just sitting there as an in-orbit spare at 110 W.

 

[DISH_NC]

It appears that Echostar just announced that Space Systems/Loral will be contracted to build E* XIV which makes on wonder when E*XII and E*XIII are going to launch and where....

EchoStar XIV Satellite Will Increase Capacity, Flexibility of EchoStar's DISH Network(TM)

PALO ALTO, Calif., Jan. 24 /PRNewswire/ -- Space Systems/Loral (SS/L), a subsidiary of Loral Space & Communications (Nasdaq: LORL - News) and the world's leading provider of high-power commercial satellites, today announced that it has been awarded a contract to manufacture a new direct broadcast satellite (DBS) for EchoStar Orbital Corporation II, a subsidiary of EchoStar Communications Corporation (Nasdaq: DISH - News). EchoStar XIV will provide expanded services and flexibility for DISH Network's more than 13 million direct-to-home (DTH) television subscribers.

"Our long-term relationship with EchoStar is an endorsement of the performance, reliability and service that our company provides," said John Celli, president of Space Systems/Loral. "With an ever-increasing amount of programming options, it is an exciting time for the DTH industry and Space Systems/Loral is well positioned to help EchoStar meet its growing demand for advanced services."

"As the fastest-growing pay-TV provider in the nation and an innovator in advanced services such as HDTV, we need the power and capacity that a satellite from Space Systems/Loral can provide," said Rohan Zaveri, vice president of Space Programs for EchoStar.

There are currently three SS/L-built satellites on orbit in the EchoStar fleet.

EchoStar XIV is based on SS/L's 1300 platform, which features qualified, flight proven subsystems and a long record of reliable operation. Its high efficiency solar arrays and lightweight batteries are designed to provide uninterrupted electrical power. In all, SS/L satellites have amassed more than 1,300 years of reliable on-orbit service.

 

[mike123abc]

It appears that Echostar just announced that Space Systems/Loral will be contracted to build E* XIV which makes on wonder when E*XII and E*XIII are going to launch and where....

One of them is already up, R1 got renamed to E XII.

 

[rocatman]

It is possible that Dish will skip E-13 because of the superstition that 13 is an unlucky number or it there could be another satellite under contract for construction that has not been announced.

 

[navychop]

E XII is at 61.5 and is under used. I believe there is a lack of frequency licenses that restricts it from being fully used. Anybody know anything more about this?

 

[KE4EST]

WOW this thread has turned out to be very educational.

 

[rocatman]

E XII is at 61.5 and is under used. I believe there is a lack of frequency licenses that restricts it from being fully used. Anybody know anything more about this?

The E XII or E-12 satellite (formerly Rainbow-1) utilization is somewhat complicated. It does have significant spotbeam capability that Dish is not using. See http://ekb.dbstalk.com/satmaps.htm for the spotbeam capability. Instead Dish is using its TPs in "CONUS" mode which is how it was operated with Voom. E-12 can provide programming from all odd TPs from 1-21 plus 23 and 24. Dish has Special Temporary Authority from the FCC to use TPs 23 and 24 but has not been assigned permanent usage. Dish has requested a ruling from the FCC on TPs 23 and 24 but has been reluctant to fully utilize these TPs because of the lack of permanent usage permission. The E-3 satellite provides programming for other TPs at 61.5 W but because of satellite failures, Dish can not provide programming from TPs 4, 6 and 28. It also appears that TPs 26 and 30 do not have significant amounts of programming on them although TP 30 appears to be keeping some East Coast HD RSNs warm.

 

[navychop]

Thank you.

 

[cebbigh]

Trying to track this. E-11 is scheduled to launch this year. E-12 is already up at 61.5 and was just a rename from R-1. E-13 is a possible number skip. E-14 is in the works.

I guess the question is if this will be enough to keep pace with what should be a big expansion of National HD in the next two years? Has Dish stated any plan about replacing E-5 at 129 (sorry if its already posted somewhere and I just missed it)?

D* stirred the pot with the announcement of capacity and agreements in principle. Will E* have the capacity to match?

 

[mdonnelly]

...Has Dish stated any plan about replacing E-5 at 129 (sorry if its already posted somewhere and I just missed it)?

D* stirred the pot with the announcement of capacity and agreements in principle. Will E* have the capacity to match?

Yes. Ceil-2 is scheduled to launch early next year, and will go to the Canadian slot at 129. Dish will have access to half of the transponders.

Edit: Just looked on the Ceil website, and it says Ceil-2 should be launched in "late 2008".

 

[rocatman]

Trying to track this. E-11 is scheduled to launch this year. E-12 is already up at 61.5 and was just a rename from R-1. E-13 is a possible number skip. E-14 is in the works.

I guess the question is if this will be enough to keep pace with what should be a big expansion of National HD in the next two years? Has Dish stated any plan about replacing E-5 at 129 (sorry if its already posted somewhere and I just missed it)?

D* stirred the pot with the announcement of capacity and agreements in principle. Will E* have the capacity to match?

The 129 W DBS slot is a Canadian slot and Dish has an agreement with Ciel, a Canadian company affliliated with SES Global/Americom and the Canadian government to use the 129 W slot. Actually I believe the E-5 satellite is also referred to as Ciel-1. The Ciel-2 satellite is scheduled to launch in late 2008 (Lyngsat has it launching October - December 2008) and Dish will have use of at least half (16 TPs) of its DBS capacity. It has been reported that it will have massive spotbeam capability.

 

[MikeD-C05]

So will the replacement sat at 129 have both conus and spotbeam capacity? Other wise where will the national hd channels go?

 

[mike123abc]

So will the replacement sat at 129 have both conus and spotbeam capacity? Other wise where will the national hd channels go?

Yes it will have both.

 

[cebbigh]

The 129 W DBS slot is a Canadian slot and Dish has an agreement with Ciel, a Canadian company affliliated with SES Global/Americom and the Canadian government to use the 129 W slot. Actually I believe the E-5 satellite is also referred to as Ciel-1. The Ciel-2 satellite is scheduled to launch in late 2008 (Lyngsat has it launching October - December 2008) and Dish will have use of at least half (16 TPs) of its DBS capacity. It has been reported that it will have massive spotbeam capability.

Sorry if this is dumb question, but is Ciel-2 the same as E-14 or is it something else?

 

[rocatman]

Sorry if this is dumb question, but is Ciel-2 the same as E-14 or is it something else?

These are two different satellites. Ciel-2 is definitely going to 129 W and we don't know where E-14 is going.

 

[mike123abc]

Echostar has at least 6 slots that need a satellite at the present time... E14 could be going anywhere.

 

[cebbigh]

Does this all add up to a bunch more capacity? Is DTV really going to be that far ahead or are they just marketing it that way?

With what sounds like a big success with MPEG4 yesterday Dish should be poised to start a big increase in HD offerings based on capacity. Someone needs to nudge Charlie .... :

 

[navychop]

Remember, D* shuts down channels for ST broadcasts. They are shorter on capacity than E*. After the next two sat launches, they may be ahead. Then E* launches one, uses E 12 more, leases more, gets Ceil 2, etc. It swaps back and forth. Both can use MPEG-4- E* is just a bit ahead now. You can count on both being very close to each other in offerings. It's great that D* has the Sunday Ticket- they lose money on it, BIG TIME. It is a draw for making money elsewhere. Do they come out ahead? Well, how many quarters have they actually MADE money instead of losing it?

E* has more national HD. That's what counts the most. Some discount Voom. But many of us watch 2 or 3 of those channels regularly. Promises of future offerings don't count as much as actual current offerings. Both companies have been slow in delivering promises.

E* may be a bit shy in making public promises on HD or anything else- they've been burned on Dish Online and External USB Storage, etc etc. Maybe they'll be a bit slower to announce than D*, but not so slow to actually deliver.

 

[digiblur]

A few comments to your assumptions/ideas. I think it would be a waste for Dish to only dedicate 5 TPs to E-11 for spotbeams since E-10 uses 10 TPs. The reuse capability goes way down with only 5 TPs to work with. Dish should move the 3 TPs worth of national HD off of 110 W to 61.5/129 and move 3 TPs worth of SD programming from 119 to 110 so E-11 could use 8 TPs for spotbeams. This would give Dish significant capacity for HD locals.

The capacity at 61.5 W is the problem and the failures with E-3 makes it worse. Currently Dish uses 4 TPs for HD locals at 61.5 W but also has 3 TPs that it can't use because of E-3 failures. There is probably room to free up another 3 TPs and maybe more if Dish gets FCC approval for regular use of TPs 23 and 24 and some of the internationals could also be moved to 118.7 or 121. Dish does need another satellite at 61.5 W and E-6 is just sitting there as an in-orbit spare at 110 W.

What makes it worse is 129W is not even their slot!

 

[Jhon69]

Does this all add up to a bunch more capacity? Is DTV really going to be that far ahead or are they just marketing it that way?

With what sounds like a big success with MPEG4 yesterday Dish should be poised to start a big increase in HD offerings based on capacity. Someone needs to nudge Charlie .... :

Well let's see SW1&2 have already been launched and operational.D9s is up and
operational.D10&D11 needs to be launched and operational.Yea they just might be
marketing it that way.

P.S. Oh And I forgot D12 which is a standby backup.