Dishnetwork blasting its Contractors

Everyone get ready....here comes another opened can of worms! ;)

As a Trouble Call Specialist I see all kinds of crap in the field. I see stuff from retailers, DNS and even techs from my own company. And I can tell you, there's jobs from all of them that suck. There isn't any place that's immune from it. There's always gonna be some young kid who doesn't have the maturity or the mindset to be able to do installations/service correctly. DISH pays it's installers by the job, so you're always gonna have that. That's just the way a lot of people think - "Hey, I'm only getting paid 50 bucks for this install, I'm here for hours, so they're only gonna get the quality of work that 50 bucks deserves". But what they fail to realize is that for a 3 room job that pays 50 bucks, and it takes them 3 hours from start to finish, that's 17 bucks an hour. I don't care where you live, that's pretty good cash. As a TC Specialist I make $25 per call. Most calls I can fix in less than an hour. $25 an hour. I feel that that warrants the best job that I can possibly give. On every call I make sure that the signal levels are good, picture quality is good, system is grounded and weatherproofed, fittings are all replaced regardless of how new or old they are (just cuz I'm that picky), cable is not cut or damaged, and the dish is solidly mounted. If any of those things are not the way they should be, I fix it. Regardless of whether that's why I was actually there or not. Maybe the customer just has their TV2 on the wrong channel, but I still check everything, and I train all the newbies to do the same. But still, I find myself every day cleaning up someone else's mess. Probably half of the jobs I go to, I end up redoing at least the outside half of the system, since 90% of the time that's where most problems come from. Just today I moved a dish off the side of a metal single-wide trailer that was floppping in the breeze down to a pole on the ground. Customer had no 129 signal for locals and the 119 was about 75%. After move - 119 - 111% 129 - 90%. It was one of my guys that put it up there. He will be backcharged for the job. But not for the whole job. We have a system in place that breaks down certain dollar amounts for different aspects of the job.


So....I said all that to say this. There are installers out there that do crappy work. And holding true to the consumers law, a dissatisfied customer will tell an average of 10 people about their negative experience. Conversely, a satisfied customer tells an average of 4 people about their experience. So I would say that as a rule the publicity given to poor installs is somewhat exagerated. Some of the issue is lack of training. The rest is the attitude of the techs. And I can tell you from experience that if a tech has gotten into a bad attitude, you won't fix it by backcharging him. It will only piss him off and give him a justification for continuing his bad habits. The only thing you can do is build a file on him and fire him. I agree with DISH's QC program. I was part of it for some time and I can tell you that it does help to increase work quality. If nothing else, it helps to raise awareness amongst the workforce of exactly what is expected. However, the idea of a 100% backcharge is laughable. There are always going to be exceptions to certain rules. I certainly hope that someone will take another look at this before they implement it. I understand the thinking behind it, but at the same time I think that they are going to lose a lot of their good workers because of it. Like someone else said, nobody is perfect. I don't care who you are. You will always occasionally forget to crimp a fitting or tighten a bolt or clip the end off a zip tie. What will end up happening is they will lose the good workers, then you'll get into this rut of hiring new people to replace them who will have to be rushed out the training room door to pick up jobs because of all the people quitting/ fired. Then those guys screw up and get canned.....it turns into a vicious cycle. If they're so concerned about quality all of the sudden, they're going about it the wrong way.
 
I would just chime in with this:

Job security for me!!!!!!!!!!!

Personally, I think companies should engage a 3rd and unbiased party for their QC work. I vote for me!!!!!!!!! :D
 
Everyone get ready....here comes another opened can of worms! ;)

As a Trouble Call Specialist I see all kinds of crap in the field. I see stuff from retailers, DNS and even techs from my own company. And I can tell you, there's jobs from all of them that suck. There isn't any place that's immune from it. There's always gonna be some young kid who doesn't have the maturity or the mindset to be able to do installations/service correctly. DISH pays it's installers by the job, so you're always gonna have that. That's just the way a lot of people think - "Hey, I'm only getting paid 50 bucks for this install, I'm here for hours, so they're only gonna get the quality of work that 50 bucks deserves". But what they fail to realize is that for a 3 room job that pays 50 bucks, and it takes them 3 hours from start to finish, that's 17 bucks an hour. I don't care where you live, that's pretty good cash. As a TC Specialist I make $25 per call. Most calls I can fix in less than an hour. $25 an hour. I feel that that warrants the best job that I can possibly give. On every call I make sure that the signal levels are good, picture quality is good, system is grounded and weatherproofed, fittings are all replaced regardless of how new or old they are (just cuz I'm that picky), cable is not cut or damaged, and the dish is solidly mounted. If any of those things are not the way they should be, I fix it. Regardless of whether that's why I was actually there or not. Maybe the customer just has their TV2 on the wrong channel, but I still check everything, and I train all the newbies to do the same. But still, I find myself every day cleaning up someone else's mess. Probably half of the jobs I go to, I end up redoing at least the outside half of the system, since 90% of the time that's where most problems come from. Just today I moved a dish off the side of a metal single-wide trailer that was floppping in the breeze down to a pole on the ground. Customer had no 129 signal for locals and the 119 was about 75%. After move - 119 - 111% 129 - 90%. It was one of my guys that put it up there. He will be backcharged for the job. But not for the whole job. We have a system in place that breaks down certain dollar amounts for different aspects of the job.


So....I said all that to say this. There are installers out there that do crappy work. And holding true to the consumers law, a dissatisfied customer will tell an average of 10 people about their negative experience. Conversely, a satisfied customer tells an average of 4 people about their experience. So I would say that as a rule the publicity given to poor installs is somewhat exagerated. Some of the issue is lack of training. The rest is the attitude of the techs. And I can tell you from experience that if a tech has gotten into a bad attitude, you won't fix it by backcharging him. It will only piss him off and give him a justification for continuing his bad habits. The only thing you can do is build a file on him and fire him. I agree with DISH's QC program. I was part of it for some time and I can tell you that it does help to increase work quality. If nothing else, it helps to raise awareness amongst the workforce of exactly what is expected. However, the idea of a 100% backcharge is laughable. There are always going to be exceptions to certain rules. I certainly hope that someone will take another look at this before they implement it. I understand the thinking behind it, but at the same time I think that they are going to lose a lot of their good workers because of it. Like someone else said, nobody is perfect. I don't care who you are. You will always occasionally forget to crimp a fitting or tighten a bolt or clip the end off a zip tie. What will end up happening is they will lose the good workers, then you'll get into this rut of hiring new people to replace them who will have to be rushed out the training room door to pick up jobs because of all the people quitting/ fired. Then those guys screw up and get canned.....it turns into a vicious cycle. If they're so concerned about quality all of the sudden, they're going about it the wrong way.

:bow X's 100

Your points are well taken. The bottom line is, a 100 percent chargeback is down and out criminal. Fortunately, the RSP you work with (Digital Dish) has implemented a trouble-call person to intervene and essentially clean up after sloppy and otherwise shoddy work. Their policy is a sound one; a sliding scale of severity is how a tech gets backcharged.

I really wish DNS as a whole would do this in the 1st place. I believe that was the OP's major gripe and message that he was trying to convey. Unfortunately, he probably chose the wrong forum to post his b*tch. There are too many people (installers and Dish customers) who have no sympathy for shoddy work, and as such believe in 100 percent perfection. In the real world, that isn't going to happen. Too many apartments are prewired with RG-59 or are otherwise unable to be properly grounded. If an installer is willing to "chance things" by making the install happen and THEN the system fails, he should be backcharged the amount to make it workable. Not the full cost of the job.
 
What "defines" a 100% pass? The paper survey done when the job is complete? If my installation had no problems and my service is great but the guy was an hour late (or some other inconsequential thing) and I give less than a 100% rating the installer makes nothing? (I can't remember the form, are there choices for each catagory of "yes" or "no" or are there levels like 1 to 5?)l

I don't get to assign a number or an overall pass/fail. The company that ordered the QC decides that. I answer a series of questions as pass/fail or na. If anything is marked fail, then the whole site gets marked fail. If something if I find something really stupid, I can mark it "escalate" so that it goes to the top of the heap. I back all my findings with photos. Look at my sig. In my system, I can see only the passes or however I need to filter it. Out of all those sites, I have marked 46 pass, and several of those were noted as having a copper ground strap on a galvanized conduit. You are supposed to use copper on copper ONLY!!!
 
Oh trust me, if WeQC was up this way, I would've jumped onboard a loooooooong time back. :p

You might contact them. They just scored a huge contract :hungry:, and they have work nationwide. They told me there was plenty of work to go around. I know I can't do them all by myself. Besides, its one hell of a part time job. I started out running routes when Rocking R and Dish screwed me over (by not giving me work every day)---ie when I had time.

PM me and I can tell you about a dude who has awesome work and awesome pay, but it is not constant (if it was, I'd do that every day). :D
 
Ok everybody

I posted this information because I wanted to get FEEDBACK yes...

Yes, you as a consumer should get only the best for your bucks.

Yes, there are some very bad installers that should be retired at age 22.

Yes, many jobs get trashed by inexperienced or lazy techs looking for a quick buck.

Yes, every satellite and cable job must be grounded and installed properly and all tv's working groovy for years without issues.

******************************************************************

No, satellite tech that does perform well and does a good job should have 100% monies subtracted from pay. Give chance to fix problem!

No, company is correct when extracting all monies for completed job by any employee. If you work 4 hours with pay of $15 per hour, thats what you get. If you perform poorly give warnings or FIRED before taking from employee's family.

No, its not right when many techs have done a great job. YOU know a few good techs that dont deserve this treatment. If your company practices this type of treatment to employees then you and them should be MOBSTERED.:hungry:

No, its against the law to subtract monies without employee signing statement saying that they agree to this BS.

Just my 2 cents

I understand what most consumers are going through and believe me I dont want bad techs to half ass do jobs and cause trouble calls and service calls. Customer going without TV for days and days. I know many good installers that do a great job. We all know a few great installers with families that dont need this BS.

Stealing dishnet signal is another reason why Dishnetwork is doing this and passing on the cost to the TECHs and CONSUMERS.

Many Satellite techs thinking about going on strike or changing jobs.
Dishnetwork are turning into some Bullie Mobwads.


Have a GREAT DIA:confused:


Bottom line, you don't do the job right, you don't get paid. Don't like it, get a desk job and get out of the field. Think Charlie will disagree with me? E-mail or give him a call.

Charlie is done playing games with subs (I love subs that think they're RSP's btw) that are doing half-assed jobs on installs and t/c's and leaving the customer upset. You talk about overloading techs, but every job you do incorrectly forces a decent tech to go out into the field to fix it, ON TOP of their already committed workload.

Do it right, and you have nothing to worry about. Noone is looking for 100%, but where Charlie is involved a 90-95% isn't unheard of. Be thankful he doesn't pull the DISH Network license from your company if you botch ten installs or more in a month. Customers deserve good service, techs deserve to get paid for doing their jobs, not half their jobs, not most of their jobs. It's all or nothing. Welcome to the work force.
 
I'm curious...how much does E* pay a sub to install a dish, peaking, cabeling, setup, authorization and tuning?

The company I worked for was "paying" $75 for the first tv. $25 for the others (installer supplies everything but the actual DN equipment). However, when you got down to the nitty gritty, they were charging us back for stuff like:

1)DPP seperators (how is it my fault that its bad if it comes with the eq THEY supply?)

2) customers putting TV2 on channel 3 or 4 instead of 60 or 73. I tried everything to combat this. Stickers on TV's AND Remotes. Marker on the manual. Noted on the WO and in the customer's notes by DISH AND the folks I was working for. After all that, if the nincompoop still couldn't figure out what channel the TV was supposed to be on and somebody had to go back, they charged the last person on the job site for it. I got charged back for one butthole who had Dish for over 2 years before I ever started working for them. How is that my fault? You expect a customer with over 2 years experience to know WTF they are doing by now. :rolleyes:

So, in effect, your pay was something less than it was supposed to be always. With no real appeals process. They also began to loose paperwork and claim it hadn't been submitted properly. Convinent. They charged me over $800 for "missing" equipment that had been turned in---I had reciepts (signed by their manager!!!). Not once did they give me a heads up. They just jacked my paycheck one week. Then, after I showed and proved ----it took over a month to get my money from the jerkwads. They even tried to lay a guilt trip on me because their manager was gonna have to pay for the equipment he lost. WTF---how is that my problem and why should I care? He should have gotten a reciept!!!!
 
Out of all those sites, I have marked 46 pass, and several of those were noted as having a copper ground strap on a galvanized conduit. You are supposed to use copper on copper ONLY!!!

R O T F L

OK, Mr. QC guy. If copper on copper is soooooooooo important, tell me PLEASE: Why does Dishnetwork ABSOLUTELY REQUIRE that ALUMINUM GROUND LUGS be used when attaching COPPER wire to a STEEL dish footplate??????????????

If you missed it, that is THREE DIFFERENT TYPES OF METALS. REQUIRED, by Dish.

Where do you get off failing someone tech for a copper groundstrap on a steel conduit? Maybe you should fail the entire Dishnetwork Corporation first for REQUIRING the use THREE METALS in that SAME GROUNDING SYSTEM.

Edit: I'm not pissed at you so much as I am at Dish for being so horribly insanely retarted in their code enforcements. We all do stupid things to get paid...
 
R O T F L

OK, Mr. QC guy. If copper on copper is soooooooooo important, tell me PLEASE: Why does Dishnetwork ABSOLUTELY REQUIRE that ALUMINUM GROUND LUGS be used when attaching COPPER wire to a STEAL dish footplate??????????????


I don't do QC's for dish. As I said, its not a fail because it isn't addressed by the platform providers (I've not seen it on a DTV--those guys generally use a splitbolt). It is noted, because the SBCA seemed to think it was important in their training---or were you asleep duing that portion of the training?

The idea is that there is a chemical reaction between the copper and the steel that will cause the ground not to work properly. I can't think of what it is called.

Also, most of your messenger type ground wires are copper coated steel, anyway. Never understood the aluminum. They tried to push that on us, but we got them to accept the green ground screw into the hole that wingard provided. However, we had to provide the screw. No lug. The DNS guys here were mounting their lugs on the elevation screws, which is a fail if you go by the NEC guidelines for grounding.

The key is wording. Platform provider Vs NEC. DTV does NEC, wild blue and hughesnet have specific specs.
 
I don't do QC's for dish. As I said, its not a fail because it isn't addressed by the platform providers. It is noted, because the SBCA seemed to think it was important in their training---or were you asleep duing that portion of the training?

Ah, indeed you did. Well I have been actually failed for things like copper on steel, and using aluminum ground wire, and so-forth, so I guess I just read it the way I wanted. My mistake. I still hate that Dish is so forceful with something they are so inconsistent with. And no, I didn't sleep through any SBCA training. I haven't attended any yet. Probably never will. I'm not really big on the value of framed paper. ;)

Edit: I said some stupid things in my previous post, but I'll leave them in there. I'm not gonna change what I said just to make myself look better. Heheh, a little humility is a good thing every now and then.
 
Ah, indeed you did. Well I have been actually failed for things like copper on steel, and using aluminum ground wire, and so-forth, so I guess I just read it the way I wanted. My mistake. I still hate that Dish is so forceful with something they are so inconsistent with. And no, I didn't sleep through any SBCA training. I haven't attended any yet. Probably never will. I'm not really big on the value of framed paper. ;)


I failed a dish network QC when I was installing. My sin? Using a DP Twin on a must carry 2nd dish (I used a DP twin ran to a DPP twin, LOL). They company I was working for was always running us dry on equipment, and then telling us to do "what it takes" to get it installed. Nice. It was their fault and they didn't even back me up on it. We had a lazy dish qc guy. Whenever he wanted to look at our stuff, he would give us work up aound their office, so this was like 2 blocks away, and I KNEW it would get QC'd. I had no idea that was an "instant" fail, though. I felt like shoving that DP twin right up his ass. :mad:
 
IAttatched is the sheet they use to score your installation. I wouldn't expect you to program the recover button on every customers remote contron, but there should be no reason why you can't score 100% every time!


If they want me to carry a torque wrench for lag bolts, I'm gonna need a little more scratched. Those are specialized tools.

I have never seen torque specs for a dish before. Talk about anal. Silly dish network! Torque Wrenches are for wheel bearings and lugnuts, not lagbolts!
 
If they want me to carry a torque wrench for lag bolts, I'm gonna need a little more scratched. Those are specialized tools.

I have never seen torque specs for a dish before. Talk about anal. Silly dish network! Torque Wrenches are for wheel bearings and lugnuts, not lagbolts!

TWC in Akron/Canton tried pulling that crap a few years back. They ran into the same problem you're alluding to....those wrenches weren't cheap. About $20 - $25

They finally accepted that anal fact and went back to the "wrench tight" standard.
 
When you are offered a job, you should know what its going to take to complete your tasks. If you don't think the pay is sufficient, then don't take the job. The last thing you should do is do crappy work because you don't think you are compensated correctly.

I agree with this to a certain point. Dish is known for changing the rules, though. When I was hired for dish, I was given a list of supplies known to work with Dish Pro. At the end of it was the blurb stating that it was not meant to limit what supplies we actually used, nor was it an endorsment of those products. It was only a list of stuff known to work with dish pro. Fast foward to today, and that list *probably* forms the basis of the DNS *approved* list. I wonder how much one has to pay to bribe his way onto the list......er, I mean have his product tested.
 
I agree with this to a certain point. Dish is known for changing the rules, though. When I was hired for dish, I was given a list of supplies known to work with Dish Pro. At the end of it was the blurb stating that it was not meant to limit what supplies we actually used, nor was it an endorsment of those products. It was only a list of stuff known to work with dish pro. Fast foward to today, and that list *probably* forms the basis of the DNS *approved* list. I wonder how much one has to pay to bribe his way onto the list......er, I mean have his product tested.

Even better yet, how about those DP Separators that come with the two 6" jumpers. Ya know the ones...the ones with...:eek: hex-crimped connectors. Those sure as all hell aren't on any approved DNS list, but yet still manage to make it into every single dual-tuner box.

And I won't even mention the RG-59 jumpers that still seem to appear with most of the receivers being shipped out
 
TWC in Akron/Canton tried pulling that crap a few years back. They ran into the same problem you're alluding to....those wrenches weren't cheap. About $20 - $25

They finally accepted that anal fact and went back to the "wrench tight" standard.

Don't forget they have to be calibrated, too. No idea if the little ones for the connectors have to be calibrated. I have two torque wrenches. I'll be damned if I am taking it up on the roof, or even having it bouncing around in my truck all day. They stay in the big rolling toolbox at school for use on vehicles.

Say, I finally got done reading the whole topic and that zandarkoad guy really got pissed at me, didn't he? Post of the year, right there! :eek:
 
Even better yet, how about those DP Separators that come with the two 6" jumpers. Ya know the ones...the ones with...:eek: hex-crimped connectors. Those sure as all hell aren't on any approved DNS list, but yet still manage to make it into every single dual-tuner box.

And I won't even mention the RG-59 jumpers that still seem to appear with most of the receivers being shipped out

What about the high def cables that don't come with the high def boxes anymore? :rolleyes:
 
Yeah, and the cable they've got us using now is junk. I had to replace some the other day. It was about a 100' double-strand run. I pulled the new line out of the box and started burying it. I got about half way thru and looked down at the jacket and I'll be damned if the jacket hadn't seperated right where the strands come together. You could look right into the braiding. There was about 25' of it that was like that. It's not the first time that's happened either. 'PRIME' WIRE IS JUNK! But yet it's "DNS APPROVED". Sheesh. Same as those crappy snap-n'-seal fittings DNS uses. The Perfect Vision cable is MUCH MUCH better quality.

I agree....I think someone has been spending time under someone else's desk. ;)
 
This industry is spiraling downward. These crappy installers are making it worst and worst for the industry. Dishnet have to implement more and more sticker rules the techs. Pay aren't getting higher, instead are getting lower and lower due to pay deduction, inflation, gas, cost of material (especially RG cable) are getting more and more expensive, etc. The Company will hire anyone off the street because they can't keep installers. Good and experience techs are moving on because they know they are worth more and allot of rookies can't handle it and quit.
 

510 crashed while recording...

UHF Pro remote *won't* control TV2 on my 622

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