Dish VIP211k will not properly scan and add an OTA Channel(s)?

[hman920]

I am trying to scan in OTA RF channel 12, WMOW - Crandon, WI. WMOW transmits 1 main channel and 2 subchannels (3 total).

When I try to manually add RF ch 12 on the 211k it comes in as ch "0" and will not add the channels to the guide so they can be viewed.

When I try the scan with a DTVPal they initially come in as 12-1, 12-2, 12-3 but then in the guide get added in as 70-1, 70-2, 70-3. (See attached pics).

This appears to be a glitch in the 211k.

I have also seen this issue on other VIP boxes (friends, family, neighbors).

Has anyone else in N WI seen this issue? Is their anything that can be done about it?

Any info would be great!

Thanks!

Hman

 

[rvvaquero]

So, are these channels actually broadcast on 12, 16, or 70? It looks like 16. When you try to manually add channel 70, what do you get?

 

[hman920]

The 211k will not let you do a manual scan of channel 70, only goes to 69. RF ch 70 is out of the TV broadcast range (2-69, now 2-51).

It's strange that the DTVPal adds a channel in as channel "70". RF TV channel 70 has not been in use for TV broadcasts since the early 1980's before cellular 824-849, 869-894 took over TV RF channels 70-83.

Hman

 

[hman920]

So, are these channels actually broadcast on 12, 16, or 70? It looks like 16. When you try to manually add channel 70, what do you get?

WMOW is broadcast on RF channel 12

WJFW is broadcast on RF Channel 16

WJFW used to be RF channel 12 before with digital switch, that is why it comes up as virtual 12-1, 12-2.


On the Zenith DTT901 digital converter box it scans RF channel 16 (WJFW) as 12-1, 12-2 (Same as DTVPal)

and RF channel 12 (WMOW) as 12-3, 12-4, 12-5 (Not 70-1, 70-2, 70-3 like DTVPal)

Hman

 

[dishrich]

Try posting at this site, as it pertains to your local market:

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/45-local-hdtv-info-reception/448653-lacrosse-wausau-wi-hdtv.html

 

[boba]

WMOW is shown as broadcasting on CH12 VHF with virtual channel 4. Have you tried a hard reset, do you have a VHF antenna? Have you tried calling WMOW's broadcast engineer to be sure your problem isn't on their end.

 

[Jim5506]

One possibility is that the station's PSIP is screwed up.
Call the station and ask them to reboot their PSIP computer.

 

[caam1]

I have a DTVPal that does the same with KTVT channel 11 in the DFW area. The station transmits on channel 18 (virtual 11) but shows as channel 70.1 in the DTVPal guide. It has always done this. It displays correctly on all other Dish receivers that I have had. It tunes correctly when I press 11 on the remote, so I ignore the problem.

 

[boba]

I have a DTVPal that does the same with KTVT channel 11 in the DFW area. The station transmits on channel 18 (virtual 11) but shows as channel 70.1 in the DTVPal guide. It has always done this. It displays correctly on all other Dish receivers that I have had. It tunes correctly when I press 11 on the remote, so I ignore the problem.

I've got two DTV PAL converter boxes at 60+ miles they pickup ch11 on ch. 11 neither display channel 70

 

[renegade734]

Wow, I though it was only my DTVPal that was weird ... mine is on an old-school 32" Sanyo that is watched only occaisionally. Channels seem to move around all by themselves. Sometimes it adds channels from hundreds of miles away.

 

[boba]

Wow, I though it was only my DTVPal that was weird ... mine is on an old-school 32" Sanyo that is watched only occaisionally. Channels seem to move around all by themselves. Sometimes it adds channels from hundreds of miles away.

Usually that is an indication that you are picking up skip. At night the atmosphere changes and distant stations come in and your tuner captures a new signal and stores it. By morning the atmosphere has changed and the signal is too weak to be used but the channel is still stored in the tuners memory. The only cure is delete the channel.

 

[bnewt]

I have a DTVPal that does the same with KTVT channel 11 in the DFW area. The station transmits on channel 18 (virtual 11) but shows as channel 70.1 in the DTVPal guide. It has always done this. It displays correctly on all other Dish receivers that I have had. It tunes correctly when I press 11 on the remote, so I ignore the problem.

I don't live near DFW, but I have the same problem with my local............& it is the same channels (11 virtual, but shows as 70 on DTVPal).

 

[hman920]

The engineer for WAOW/WMOW is on vacation until next week. I will try him when he gets back.

I tried the scan with my Hauppauge USB ATSC/8VSB TV Tuner and I got:

12.1 WJFW-DT RF Channel 16
12.2 WJFW-DT RF Channel 16
4.1 WMOW-CW RF Channel 12
4.2 WMOW-DT RF Channel 12
4.3 THIS-TV RF Channel 12



So 4 different ATSC OTA digital tuners (211k, DTVPal, DTT901, and Hauppauge) and 4 different results.

Very strange!

 

[hman920]

WMOW is shown as broadcasting on CH12 VHF with virtual channel 4. Have you tried a hard reset, do you have a VHF antenna? Have you tried calling WMOW's broadcast engineer to be sure your problem isn't on their end.

I have tried a hard reset of the VIP211k several times.

I have a Winegard HD7698P connected to the 8VSB port on my 211k, so yes the HD7698P covers VHF RF channel 12. I am getting a signal strength of 86 from VHF RF channel 12 (see pictures above).

The WAOW/WMOW engineer is on vacation until next week. I will try him when he gets back.

 

[hman920]

Here is the response I got from the engineer at the TV station:


We have had reports of somewhat similar problems in the past.

Our experience tells us that the situation is probably caused by one of two things. To try to answer your questions I must first state a bit of history. In the days of analog television, WJFW had an analog channel allocation of RF Channel 12. WMOW analog at that time was on the air on RF channel 4 carrying a religious station from Crandon.

At the time of the digital transition, WJFW (Now virtual Channel 12, but RF channel 16.) went on the air on RF channel 16 and turned off RF channel 12. There was no digital transmitter site ID or digital transmitter for the Crandon channel 4 at that time, so it went off the air and stayed dark for over a year. Then, after that time we got a digital transmitter and another antenna and put WMOW back on the air on RF Channel 12 (Virtual Channel 4). At that time the TSID (Transmitter site Identification) number was issued by the FCC.

What has happened here is that either the database that the receiver is using to reference the WMOW transmitter site does not include the TSID number for WMOW because that was issued AFTER the original transition or the receiver is seeing the WJFW virtual channel 12 and not allowing the RF channel 12 (Virtual channel 4) that we are now using to be scanned in. We have checked and double checked our PSIP information for the WMOW Crandon site and it is fine.

To try to remedy the problem, I would recommend you contact Dish Network and ask them how to reset the receiver to factory settings. Once that is done, you should be able to rescan in all the channels and if the problem persists, it is probably due to the exclusion of the WMOW data from whatever database the receiver may be using. I (And Dish, probably) will not have a good solution to that one. If you try the above and are still having problems, please either e-mail or phone me and we'll try to figure out a way to get around that problem if it is possible.

Thanks for your e-mail and I hope all goes well.

Russ
Russ Crass, Chief Engineer
WAOW WYOW and WMOW TV
1908 Grand Avenue
Wausau, Wisconsin 54403



I'm sure if I call Dishnetwork to discuss this with them they will be totally clueless.

Is there someone who reads this forum who has a contact with Dishnetworks engineering department who could inquire about updating the Dish OTA receiver database?

Thanks!

Hman

 

[ChadT41]

Are you looking just to reset the receiver to factory defaults as it mentions? If so, it's in the menus, menu>settings>factory default I beleive is the path.

 

[harshness]

Doesn't the DTVPal use PSIP data for everything?

If all the devices are giving different answers, would seem to be with the PSIP data.

 

[hman920]

This problem is now FIXED!!!

When performing a channel scan the WMOW channels now scan in with virtual channel 4 and load into the receiver properly.

I am not sure if this was fixed on Dishnetwork's end or the OTA broadcasters end, it would be interesting to know what the problem was.

Either way, it is FINALLY fixed and I am happy...


Hman

 

[Mr Tony]

sounds like Quincy (owner of WMOW) finally got the PSIP fixed to map the channels to 4-X instead of their RF station of 12-X

I know on the Dish converter boxes (DTVPal and DTVPal DVR) so also assume Dish receivers when there is conflicting PSIP numbers one of them always gets mapped to 70-X or higher. I learned that last year when DX'ing TV stations with a DTV Pal.

But glad its fixed for ya

 

[dishrich]

I know on the Dish converter boxes (DTVPal and DTVPal DVR) so also assume Dish receivers when there is conflicting PSIP numbers one of them always gets mapped to 70-X or higher. I learned that last year when DX'ing TV stations with a DTV Pal.

I noticed this one time on mine as well; thank you for pointing this out...couldn't understand why this was happening. (the extra 70.xx channels in the EPG)