Dish saying I have a ETF...I disagree, DIRT support?

[KE4EST]

You didn't physically sign anything. That's all smoke and mirrors.

Again, ask for them to produce the contract.

Even if they do, who is to say they just didn't cut and paste your signature ?

The contracts retailers must sign have a signature page with places on almost every page for initials.

Claude I know you hate DISH, but you are just over reaching now.
This could go on forever, who is to say someone didn't forge a signature on paper. or what if this or what if that.
I am old school as they say like you, but signing a digital tablet is the way things are going and have been for a long time in some industries.

 

[rvvaquero]

Yep. Try to tell UPS you didn't receive a package because you didn't sign a piece of paper.

 

[FearTheVoices]

Just an update...

Laila sent my info to someone and I was contacted by someone named James from the cooperate offices (of dish social media department I think he said)

Anyway, he left a message Sunday afternoon for me and I called him back Monday afternoon. After speaking with him he mentioned to me that he was able to retrieve my original dish transcript I had with the dish online which did in fact say that I had a no commitment upgrade. I couldn't believe they were able to retrieve a chat transcript from mid-late November! I figured they keep a retention policy of that on record for a month or so and it was long gone.

Whenever I go to dish chat I always take a screenshot of the chat. I think I forgot to save this one before I wiped my PC about 3 weeks ago and that's why I never mentioned having it in the original post. It would just give dish or whomever more reason not to believe it.

One odd thing cooperate James did say, that I wish I would have followed up on a bit more is that he said something along the lines that even though I had a no commitment contract, a ETF would still apply according to the wording. He kinda of chuckled like as to say that doesn't make much sense but is common practice? At least that's the way I interpreted it.

In the end though I applaud Laila for the quick responses to me. And also James for making the effort to have the dish chat records brought dug up doing right in the end.



Sent from my iPhone using the SatelliteGuys app!

 

[JosephB]

You didn't physically sign anything. That's all smoke and mirrors.

Again, ask for them to produce the contract.

Even if they do, who is to say they just didn't cut and paste your signature ?

The contracts retailers must sign have a signature page with places on almost every page for initials.

I've got news for you, signing a contract on a digital device is just the same as signing on a piece of paper. As are checking check boxes and then hitting "submit" or "I agree" online

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_Signatures_in_Global_and_National_Commerce_Act

 

[Claude Greiner]

I've got news for you, signing a contract on a digital device is just the same as signing on a piece of paper. As are checking check boxes and then hitting "submit" or "I agree" online

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_Signatures_in_Global_and_National_Commerce_Act

But when the tech asks you to sign their tablet, what are you actually signing ?

A contract or a work order saying the job is complete?

So when you order Dish they say that someone over 18 needs to be home... Period.

Nothing about the account holder having to be present.

You could have the 18 year old baby sitter over while having your Dish installed. They will still do the work, but can the baby sitter physically sign a Dish agreement for you? NO!

I was a national sales partner for over 6 years, and a retailer for 14 years.

All installations performed by Dish are a verbal contact. I was told this by Dish management because as a sales partner it was our responsibility to go over the contract with the customer and we had specific language that had to be read word by word for the contract to be valid.

I made the argument one day that what difference does the verbiage make if the customer is signing a physical contract upon installation. My argument was we had to only mention a contract, and not go into specific details.

That's when I was told the contract was verbal.

Now here is the other issue, you have to physically give your social security number and credit card over the phone in the same phone call usually they you verbally agree to the contract.

There are certain TCPA requirements by the credit card companies and federal regulations that relate to storing customers personal sensitive information.

Meaning that due to the security of the information contained in a recorded phone call, they cannot email , send you a disk or play back to you a recording of your conversation of you agreeing to the contract.

Think of how much liability there is for Dish if they where emailing or sending employees or customers copies of phone calls to prove contracts.

You could have someone bleep out all the sensitive info, but by the time you pay someone to listen to and edit phone calls it's easier to just let the customer cancel without penalty.

I remember when we did have to send recorded calls to Dish, it was with a special SFTP server, and we had to have a special security token installed on the computer and we could only log into the system with a specific IP address. It was such a pain in the A$$ to setup and use, I was the only one in the office who knew how to use it and was able to upload calls.

You think the average Joe Six pack working a 9-5 job at Dish is going to have access to recordings with sensitive customer information?

So again, there is no contract and it's NOT enforceable.

Dish is banking on the fact you remember agreeing to a contract so they can enforce it. Same as they attempt to charge you for an LNB if you don't challenge them that you have no way to get it off your roof.

 

[Claude Greiner]

Quit trying to fight me on this. I may hate Dish but I do know what I'm taking about.

 

[dishdude]

Claude has a point about signing the tablet, are you supposed to stand there and read a multiple page contract from a tablet? Not the same as signing for a package.

 

[JosephB]

Claude has a point about signing the tablet, are you supposed to stand there and read a multiple page contract from a tablet? Not the same as signing for a package.

Just because you didn't read it doesn't mean you didn't sign the contract.

Claude doesn't have a point, I don't care if he was a dish retailer for a thousand years, he's not a contract lawyer, and I guarantee a fortune 500 company has their ducks in a row on this issue

 

[ChadT41]

You cannot have an enforceable contract that cannot be completed in full in less than 365 days. The signed contract is what is enforceable, and yes, the customer should read the tablet and everything they are placing their signature on. Frankly, it is the customers responsibility, as it is their endorsement. The babysitter can sign a contract, it is both an implied-in-fact contrac, and a implied-in-law contract. The written contract is a bilateral contract, and continuing service would be acceptance.
E-contracts, and e-commerce are just as enforceable as paper. Claude, unfortunately on this one, you have nothing to stand on. There are multiple laws defending e-commerce. Why do you think a company as large as H&R Block solely uses e-sign? So does the IRS. And quite a few other government entities. Supreme Court has ruled in favor of a few times.

 

[rvvaquero]

Quit trying to fight me on this. I may hate Dish but I do know what I'm taking about.

Then you shouldn't have any problem getting the millions of dollars that they owe you.

 

[Tampa8]

Claude has a point about signing the tablet, are you supposed to stand there and read a multiple page contract from a tablet? Not the same as signing for a package.

It may not be conducive to do so I would agree. But in the end it is the consumer's responsibility to read and understand what they are signing or they can decide not to sign. Nothing prevents you from asking for a copy of it in advance or even at the time of signing.
If someone is wondering this is not a door to door sale. In true door to door sales in some circumstances you can cancel in three days. (Right of rescission)

 

[AlaJoe]

Just curious how much of an ETF they are wanting to charge you. Normally it is 20 per month so with you only 4 months at the most into a two year contract I am seeing a $400 ETF but that would seem absurd when a 4K joey is only about $125 dollars.

 

[Bobby]

I recently has some service completed at my house. When the work was completed I had to sign the techs tablet and I received a copy of it, including my signature, in my email shortly later. This is what was just above the signature:

By signing below, you hereby acknowledge and agree that: (i) the services described in Section B above (the “

”) were completed to your satisfaction on the service date set forth above Services (the “Service Date”) at the

property (including, without limitation, any improvements thereto) described in Section A above (the “Property

”); (ii) the equipment described in Section B above (the “Equipment”) is in good working order; and (iii) you are

receiving the video programming that you requested, if any. You hereby represent that you: (a) are at least

eighteen (18) years old; (b) are the person whose name appears in Section A above (“Customer” or “you”) or a

person authorized by Customer to sign this Service Agreement; and (c) have read, understand and agree to be

bound by the terms and conditions contained in this Service Agreement, including, without limitation, the terms

and conditions set forth below (if this Service Agreement is being reviewed in electronic form) or on the other

pages of this Service Agreement (if this Service Agreement is being reviewed in paper form). The Commercial

Customer Agreement (“CCA”) or the Residential Customer Agreement (“RCA”), as applicable, is incorporated

by reference herein and contains additional terms and conditions. The CCA is available at

www.commercial.dish.com/downloads/forms/commercial-customer-agreement.pdf and the RCA is available at

www.dish.com/legal.

Except to the extent that you are subject to the CCA, you and Dish Network Service L.L.C. (or, in California,

Dish Network California Service Corporation or in Puerto Rico, DISH Network Puerto Rico L.L.C.) (“DNSLLC

”) agree that any and all disputes arising out of, relating to or concerning this Service Agreement, the Equipment,

the Services and/or any other aspect of your relationship with DNSLLC or DNSLLC’s affiliates will be resolved

through mandatory and binding arbitration pursuant to the terms and conditions set forth in the RCA.

Signature

I highlighted one section to disprove Claude's assumption that the babysitter could sign and it means nothing. Following the signature section is 2 pages of the Service Agreement....

 

[Hall]

or a person authorized by Customer to sign this Service Agreement

At first I thought a customer had an out if they had someone else sign it in a case where they weren't home. But, Dish isn't stupid, like some would like people to believe ! Their lawyers covered this one !! So even when your kid (over 18), a babysitter, or even a neighbor who helped you out by being there during an installation, their signature is effectively your signature.

 

[dishdude]

Doing a little research, they email you the signed contract and you have a window of time to cancel it. Seems fair.

 

[Claude Greiner]

Then you shouldn't have any problem getting the millions of dollars that they owe you.

Want to loan me the $100,000 the lawyer wants as a retainer?


We can split the settlement

 

[Jim5506]

Want to loan me the $100,000 the lawyer wants as a retainer?


We can split the settlement

Sounds like the lawyer knows how good your chances of success are, eh.

 

[Claude Greiner]

Sounds like the lawyer knows how good your chances of success are, eh.

No, he just knows Dish will outspend him and will put up a fight.

Look at what Dish spends on litigation every year.

 

[Claude Greiner]

But if any of you want to do the right thing and pay a cancellation fee because it makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside, be my guest.

My other point is Dish is a billion dollar company they waive hundreds of contacts per day for some of the dumbest reasons.

I don't pay cancellation fees for anything, especially Dish.

I didn't pay Dish to cancel when I got rid of them 5 years ago.

 

[rvvaquero]

Want to loan me the $100,000 the lawyer wants as a retainer?


We can split the settlement

Yep, that's where the big companies get you. Did you already go to binding arbitration?