Dish: Ready to shut down DVRs if it loses lawsuit

[Bob Haller]

Could D LEGALLY PARTNER with TIVO in a attempt to
put E out of business ?
TIVO would sign a exclusive with D and refuse to license E anything, just collect a ton of money from the judgements, and smile as E looses what 40% or 50% of its subs......

wonder what percentage of E subs have a DVR?

Meanwhile D has a BIG SPLASHY advertising campaign, you miss your DVR come to D, and get a free upgrade......

charlies worst nightmare

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

Bob you should write for soap operas.

 

[Bob Haller]

Bob you should write for soap operas.

Watch out or I will REPORT YOUR POST

It was a serious question is such a arrangement legal?

 

[Poke]

Yeam my guess is that Dish settles out or they buy out Tivo. Either way they need to get this done due to it's been drug out for way to long.

 

[Bob Haller]

I guess D could buy TIVO, and refuse any license deal.

 

[ralfyguy]

If they shut down my owned 722, I'm gonna try to get other people who own their DVR's to join me in a Class Action Suit about damaging my our property recklessly. It can't be that Tivo can damage my owned equipment. They will have to buy it back from me. This is like if Ford came by and took the transmission out of my Montego because it infringes a patent thus renders the car useless. I'd shoot them off my lawn if they would even touch it.

 

[kroag5000]

If Dish shuts off my DVR, can I cancel service without paying the early termination fee?

 

[ralfyguy]

If Dish shuts off my DVR, can I cancel service without paying the early termination fee?

I would just cancel, and tell them to get the ETF from Tivo. That's what I will do. They will NOT get that money from me. They can sue me for it if they want, I don't care.

This lawsuit is THE most childish bull I ever heard in my life. They behave like three year olds. It makes me sick. It's like Mercedes wouldn't allow any other auto makers, just because they were first.

 

[Jhon69]

Could D LEGALLY PARTNER with TIVO in a attempt to
put E out of business ?
TIVO would sign a exclusive with D and refuse to license E anything, just collect a ton of money from the judgements, and smile as E looses what 40% or 50% of its subs......

wonder what percentage of E subs have a DVR?

Meanwhile D has a BIG SPLASHY advertising campaign, you miss your DVR come to D, and get a free upgrade......

charlies worst nightmare

Not as long as they still make standard receivers and DVD recorders.

 

[EatMyVolts]

The sky is not falling.
The sun will come up in the morning.
If it gets that far, money will change hands:dev
and we will be without DVR's for, at most, a week resulting in six or seven new angry threads.:rant:

And... once this blows over, we will come up with another doom and gloom scenario to fret about, and Charlie will find somebody else with whom to duel with in court.

 

[whatchel1]

Bet a dozen

The sky is not falling.
The sun will come up in the morning.
If it gets that far, money will change hands:dev
and we will be without DVR's for, at most, a week resulting in six or seven new angry threads.:rant:

And... once this blows over, we will come up with another doom and gloom scenario to fret about, and Charlie will find somebody else with whom to duel with in court.

Just 6 or 7 I would say closer to a dozen or more.

 

[Bob Haller]

The sky is not falling.
The sun will come up in the morning.
If it gets that far, money will change hands:dev
and we will be without DVR's for, at most, a week resulting in six or seven new angry threads.:rant:

And... once this blows over, we will come up with another doom and gloom scenario to fret about, and Charlie will find somebody else with whom to duel with in court.

I doubt they will be turned off, and if it comes to that charlie will sell out or resign.......

Yep it would be that bad for business......

 

[KAB]

I doubt they will be turned off, and if it comes to that charlie will sell out or resign.......

Yep it would be that bad for business......

You never cease to amaze me Bob. At least you make me laugh.

Oh...for the thousandth time...why are you still here???

 

[sparc]

If they shut down my owned 722, I'm gonna try to get other people who own their DVR's to join me in a Class Action Suit about damaging my our property recklessly. It can't be that Tivo can damage my owned equipment. They will have to buy it back from me. This is like if Ford came by and took the transmission out of my Montego because it infringes a patent thus renders the car useless. I'd shoot them off my lawn if they would even touch it.

aren't customers who own their equipment always at risk of Dish obsoleting equipment? I seem to recall a few instances of it happening before...

 

[BobMurdoch]

The day E* kills my DVR is the day I call Fios. But I don't think it will happen as the only advantage E* has is those boxes....

 

[ralfyguy]

aren't customers who own their equipment always at risk of Dish obsoleting equipment? I seem to recall a few instances of it happening before...

This is not obsoleting equipment, it is DAMAGING equipment! I BOUGHT that DVR for the reason that it IS a DVR. If the DVR function is disabled, it is as useful as a car with all four tires flat. Remember, I BOUGHT it, not leased or rented it. It is MY property. If you willfully damage MY property, that makes you a felon. It is against the law. Whether my two year old 722 is not worth a whole lot anymore or not is irrelevant. Fact is it is an individual's personal property, and thus it is nobody else's business whatsoever.

 

[Mr Tony]

so you bought that nice shiny 722 but without subscribing to Dish Network its useless. There's something probably in the agreement with Dish about changes to programming/equipment

 

[ralfyguy]

so you bought that nice shiny 722 but without subscribing to Dish Network its useless. There's something probably in the agreement with Dish about changes to programming/equipment

I admit that I didn't read the agreement good enough. I am fully aware that the 722 is useless without a subscription, but that is not the point. At the time I bought it I would have never thought of the possibility that they could completely render it useless because of a lawsuit about a patent infringement. That is just utterly pathetic, and I would have neither BOUGHT the 722 nor would I even had subscribed to Dish Network in the knowledge of that possibility. I am pretty sure that there's something in the agreement that gets them around it to be held responsible, nevertheless I am stubborn, and I will make this a sport to go after them anyways, just because I can.

 

[dangue]

Remember, I BOUGHT it, not leased or rented it. It is MY property. If you willfully damage MY property, that makes you a felon. It is against the law.

Not if they're under court order to remove the functionality. Remember, they're being ordered to do so by a court. According to TIVO and the courts (in a scenario where Dish has to shut down the 722 that you bought), you never purchased the right to DVR functionality. But maybe TIVO will work something out for owned boxes to let you turn it back on if you pay them a monthly licensing fee.

I admit that I didn't read the agreement good enough. I am fully aware that the 722 is useless without a subscription, but that is not the point. At the time I bought it I would have never thought of the possibility that they could completely render it useless because of a lawsuit about a patent infringement. That is just utterly pathetic, and I would have neither BOUGHT the 722 nor would I even had subscribed to Dish Network in the knowledge of that possibility. I am pretty sure that there's something in the agreement that gets them around it to be held responsible, nevertheless I am stubborn, and I will make this a sport to go after them anyways, just because I can.

Just to split hairs... your 722 would still serve as a dual tuner receiver. Just the DVR portion of it would cease to function, so "completely render it useless" is inaccurate at best.

But I wouldn't get too worked up about it. Even if Judge Folsom decides to subject the VIP receivers to the injunction, Dish will never allow them to be turned off. It would cripple their business.

 

[Kheldar]

I will preface this comment by saying that I don't think Charlie is stupid enough to let this case reach the point of disabling the DVRs, and if it does reach that point, it won't last very long. But, with that said:

This is not obsoleting equipment, it is DAMAGING equipment! I BOUGHT that DVR for the reason that it IS a DVR. If the DVR function is disabled, it is as useful as a car with all four tires flat. Remember, I BOUGHT it, not leased or rented it. It is MY property. If you willfully damage MY property, that makes you a felon. It is against the law. Whether my two year old 722 is not worth a whole lot anymore or not is irrelevant. Fact is it is an individual's personal property, and thus it is nobody else's business whatsoever.

You bought the hardware, yes. You are licensing the software.
The DishNet Residential Customer Agreement, section 4A and 4H:

A. Equipment. In order to receive Services you must purchase or lease certain reception equipment consisting primarily of a DISH Network compatible satellite receiver(s) and applicable Smart Card(s), remote control(s), satellite antenna(s), and low noise block converter(s) with integrated feed(s) (collectively, “Equipment”).
...
H. Software License. You are licensed to use the software provided in your DISH Network receiver(s), as updated by DISH Network, its licensors and/or its suppliers from time to time, solely in executable code form, solely in conjunction with lawful operation of the DISH Network receiver(s) that you purchased or leased, and solely for the purposes permitted under this Agreement. You may not copy, modify or transfer any software provided in your DISH Network receiver(s), or any copy of such software, in whole or in part. You may not reverse-engineer, disassemble, decompile or translate such software, or otherwise attempt to derive its source code, except to the extent allowed under any applicable laws. You may not rent, lease, load, resell for profit or distribute any software provided in your DISH Network receiver(s), or any part thereof. Such software is licensed, not sold, to you for use only under the terms and conditions of this license, and DISH Network, its licensors and its suppliers reserve all rights not expressly granted to you. Except as stated above, this license does not grant to you any intellectual property rights in the software provided in your DISH Network receiver(s). Any attempt to transfer any of the rights, duties or obligations of this license is null and void. If you breach any term or condition of this license, this license will automatically terminate.

So DishNet has the right (and obligation, in case of any future court-ordered shutdown) to change the software or disable the DVR functionality in their licensed software.

Altering the software to disable the DVR functionality does not damage the hardware (unless they are dumb enough to accidentally overheat something with the new software).


--------------------------

If Dish shuts off my DVR, can I cancel service without paying the early termination fee?

If the customer agreement holds up in court, then no. You would still be charged the ETF.

Section 4:

F. Receiver Alterations. DISH Network may, through periodic downloads, alter the software, features and/or functionality in your DISH Network receivers; provide data and content to PVR/DVR products; store and remove data and content on the hard drives of PVR/DVR products; and send electronic counter-measures to your DISH Network receivers. DISH Network will use commercially reasonable efforts to schedule these downloads to minimize interference with or interruption to your Services, but shall have no liability to you for any interruptions in Services arising out of or related to such downloads. DISH Network may from time to time cease supporting one or more DISH Network receiver models.
G. Proprietary Components and Software. DISH Network receivers and Smart Cards contain components and software that are proprietary to DISH Network and its licensors. You agree that you will not try to reverse-engineer, decompile or disassemble, nor will you tamper with or modify, any software or hardware contained within any receiver or Smart Card. Such actions are strictly prohibited and may result in the termination of this Agreement, disconnection of your Services and/or legal action.

And Section 7:

B. ALTERATIONS TO EQUIPMENT. NONE OF DISH NETWORK, ECHOSTAR OR OUR THIRD-PARTY BILLING AGENTS, OR ANY OF OUR OR THEIR AFFILIATES, WILL BE LIABLE FOR ANY ALTERATION TO ANY EQUIPMENT, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION, REMOVING OR DISABLING FEATURES (SUCH AS THE ABILITY TO ACCESS THE INTERNET VIA A RECEIVER).
C. LOSS OF RECORDED MATERIAL. NEITHER WE NOR OUR THIRD-PARTY BILLING AGENTS NOR ANY OF OUR OR THEIR AFFILIATES WILL BE LIABLE FOR ANY DAMAGE RESULTING FROM LOSS OF RECORDED MATERIAL OR THE PREVENTION OF RECORDING, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION, ANY LOSS OR PREVENTION OF RECORDING DUE TO ANY FAULT, FAILURE, DEFICIENCY OR DEFECT IN SERVICES OR EQUIPMENT.

From those sections, DishNet reserves the right to change the software on the receiver at any time, won't be responsible for any lost recordings or the ability to record, and "shall have no liability to you for any interruptions in Services".

So, if this DVR shutdown happens, you are still bound to the contract, because you agreed that they can change the software at any time and there is no escape clause based on a software alteration.