Dish Network trying to kill Pansat and Legal FTA
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Mike hit the nail on the head. It seems that the reason they are sending out these surveys is to prove that a huge percentage of pansat owners are using them illegally. Its true that if you are using yours legally then its none of their business but if only the people who use them illegally answer then everyone is screwed. I don't own a pansat box but if I did I'd happily tell them that I enjoy watching the RTNs, Daystar, JCTV etc. That is the information that disproves their point.
If Pansat owners aren't willing to give this info to Dish because you don't trust them then somebody on here should recommend who should be doing a counter survey.
If Pansat owners aren't willing to give this info to Dish because you don't trust them then somebody on here should recommend who should be doing a counter survey.
I have 2 Pansats and have owned 5 others
1500-very simple unit that has blind scan. For fun I checked and there hasnt been a hacker update on this box for over a year
2100-basic box. Heck this thing has sats listed like "GE5", G1", "W4" etc so I dont think I have anything to worry about with that box
owned at one time 2 5000's, a 6000, a 3500 and a 9200. The 5000's & 6000 had issues (hiccups when watching TV...a freeze of picture for a split second), the 3500 at the time I thought was my 1500 with component outputs & AC-3 and the 9200 is nice but I upgraded to the Quali-TV. So Pansats do make nice receivers
1500-very simple unit that has blind scan. For fun I checked and there hasnt been a hacker update on this box for over a year
2100-basic box. Heck this thing has sats listed like "GE5", G1", "W4" etc so I dont think I have anything to worry about with that box
owned at one time 2 5000's, a 6000, a 3500 and a 9200. The 5000's & 6000 had issues (hiccups when watching TV...a freeze of picture for a split second), the 3500 at the time I thought was my 1500 with component outputs & AC-3 and the 9200 is nice but I upgraded to the Quali-TV. So Pansats do make nice receivers
I don't trust Charlie as far as I spit. True we need to report what we use them for but what guarantee do we have that the information will be used in our best interest? And what if Dish decides to use it against us and try by legal force to fine all users of FTA receivers.
Like I said I don't trust Dish or Charlie one bit. I would want an affidavit in writing from Dish stating that in no way they would try to peruse, hassle or fine ANY legal users of such receivers.
Just my views
:Most of the people using them illegally are at least smart enough to know they're doing something illegal and thus are not likely to respond at all for fear they will be incriminating themselves. So, I don't think many of them will respond. Of course I'm sure there will probably be some that are stupid enough to do so anyway, but most of them will not.
The problem is that this so called "survey" is being done by those who seek to get a predetermined outcome and as such their own personal bias is likely to color their interpretation of the results. So it's likely that however you respond they're likely to misinterpret it to support their agenda.
When anyone receives a survey regarding a Pansat receiver purchase, please post. We then can formulate a well crafted response from true FTA customers.
Until then, this thread is only speculation about what may or might happen if or when somebody does something or anything in response to nothing.....
Until then, this thread is only speculation about what may or might happen if or when somebody does something or anything in response to nothing.....
Indeed that's true but there are some things that aren't speculation. One of those is that this "survey" is being done by the plaintiff for the purpose of collecting evidence for their lawyers to use against Pansat. The second is that a lawyers job is solely to win a case for their client and to present any evidence that helps them do that and discredit any evidence that might weaken their case. Getting to the truth is not the job of a lawyer. So, if Dish Networks lawyers are behind this "survey" you can bet it's only going to be used to try and hurt Pansat and however you respond it will probably be twisted in a way to make Pansat and FTA in general look bad. So, if you get one of these "surveys" and decide to respond that's fine, just keep in mind that anything you say can and perhaps will be used to try and do harm to Pansat.
I haven't heard of anyone receiving a survey? If anyone has received a survey, please post a copy or at least acknowledge that you have received one.
Point to be made, someone has speculated that a survey MIGHT occur......
Point to be made, someone has speculated that a survey MIGHT occur......
Here's some info on Dish Vs Coolsat, if you read the last two paragraphs this really upsets me as a legal FTA receiver user:
Tuesday, August 19, 2008 :: infoZine Staff
EFF Urges Court to Protect Customers' Privacy
San Francisco, CA - infoZine- The Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) asked a federal court Friday to reject efforts by Echostar to get the names and addresses of every customer that purchased a free-to-air satellite receiver. Echostar claims that the receiver can be modified to pirate DISH satellite TV programming. EFF argues that Echostar's demand, which seeks all purchasers regardless of whether they actually pirated DISH TV, would violate user privacy and leave innocent purchasers vulnerable to bogus legal threats.
The demand for customer records came up in a lawsuit between Echostar, the company behind the DISH satellite TV service, and Freetech, Inc., the manufacturer of Coolsat free-to-air satellite receivers. As part of the suit, Echostar subpoenaed 17 distributors of Coolsat receivers, demanding the names, addresses, phone numbers, email addresses, and other information of every person who purchased a Coolsat receiver over the last five years.
"Innocent customers should not be dragged into federal litigation just because they bought a product that other, less scrupulous purchasers may be hacking for unlawful purposes," said EFF Senior Intellectual Property Attorney Fred von Lohmann. "The court should recognize the privacy interests of these customers, especially since Echostar does not need these customer lists in order to have its day in court against Freetech."
In recent years, satellite TV companies, record labels, and movie studios have all engaged in dragnet litigation tactics that threaten individuals with costly lawsuits unless they pay significant financial sums to "settle" the dispute. These mass litigation campaigns leave innocent consumers trapped between paying a "settlement" for something they did not do or facing even higher legal costs to prove their innocence. Satellite TV provider DirecTV pioneered this approach in 2001, threatening more than 120,000 individuals with legal action and commencing more than 24,000 federal lawsuits, often with no evidence other than the fact that the individual purchased multi-purpose devices that could be used for piracy.
"Once the names of Freetech customers are disclosed to Echostar, there may be little that any court can do to protect these people from harassment, settlement demands, and legal expenses," said EFF Senior Staff Attorney Matt Zimmerman. "This may be the last chance the court has to protect the privacy of these individuals."
Whats going to stop Dish from treating Pansat or all Legal FTA users the same? This needs to be stopped before Dish pulls a Direct tv number on the legal user. Since no one has received anything yet it's hearsay, but we need to be informed and have a plan of action in the works. What makes Coolsat different than Pansat where they won there case and Pansat didn't?
So if implemented this means the Pastor of a Church watching 3ABN, TBN, EWTN, etc can be fined because he's doing God's work. Something is very wrong with this. Since satellite A/V deals with a lot of religious organizations Brian should know where Im coming from.
Tuesday, August 19, 2008 :: infoZine Staff
EFF Urges Court to Protect Customers' Privacy
San Francisco, CA - infoZine- The Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) asked a federal court Friday to reject efforts by Echostar to get the names and addresses of every customer that purchased a free-to-air satellite receiver. Echostar claims that the receiver can be modified to pirate DISH satellite TV programming. EFF argues that Echostar's demand, which seeks all purchasers regardless of whether they actually pirated DISH TV, would violate user privacy and leave innocent purchasers vulnerable to bogus legal threats.
The demand for customer records came up in a lawsuit between Echostar, the company behind the DISH satellite TV service, and Freetech, Inc., the manufacturer of Coolsat free-to-air satellite receivers. As part of the suit, Echostar subpoenaed 17 distributors of Coolsat receivers, demanding the names, addresses, phone numbers, email addresses, and other information of every person who purchased a Coolsat receiver over the last five years.
"Innocent customers should not be dragged into federal litigation just because they bought a product that other, less scrupulous purchasers may be hacking for unlawful purposes," said EFF Senior Intellectual Property Attorney Fred von Lohmann. "The court should recognize the privacy interests of these customers, especially since Echostar does not need these customer lists in order to have its day in court against Freetech."
In recent years, satellite TV companies, record labels, and movie studios have all engaged in dragnet litigation tactics that threaten individuals with costly lawsuits unless they pay significant financial sums to "settle" the dispute. These mass litigation campaigns leave innocent consumers trapped between paying a "settlement" for something they did not do or facing even higher legal costs to prove their innocence. Satellite TV provider DirecTV pioneered this approach in 2001, threatening more than 120,000 individuals with legal action and commencing more than 24,000 federal lawsuits, often with no evidence other than the fact that the individual purchased multi-purpose devices that could be used for piracy.
"Once the names of Freetech customers are disclosed to Echostar, there may be little that any court can do to protect these people from harassment, settlement demands, and legal expenses," said EFF Senior Staff Attorney Matt Zimmerman. "This may be the last chance the court has to protect the privacy of these individuals."
Whats going to stop Dish from treating Pansat or all Legal FTA users the same? This needs to be stopped before Dish pulls a Direct tv number on the legal user. Since no one has received anything yet it's hearsay, but we need to be informed and have a plan of action in the works. What makes Coolsat different than Pansat where they won there case and Pansat didn't?
So if implemented this means the Pastor of a Church watching 3ABN, TBN, EWTN, etc can be fined because he's doing God's work. Something is very wrong with this. Since satellite A/V deals with a lot of religious organizations Brian should know where Im coming from.
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We posted to this thread to point out that members are incorrectly stating that surveys were being taken in the Pansat case. The thread content is based on a fallacy.
We are very familiar with the EFF representation of the Freetech case. We met with EFF lead counsel and were prepared to testify in support of the privacy of customer records and to address the validity of the equipment in the true FTA market if the case were to be taken to appeals. I would assume that the Pansat case will be heard in appeals as the ruling is not in alignment with the previous court.
Members should continue to defend their rights and to not be pressured by the assumption of guilt until proven innocent!
We are very familiar with the EFF representation of the Freetech case. We met with EFF lead counsel and were prepared to testify in support of the privacy of customer records and to address the validity of the equipment in the true FTA market if the case were to be taken to appeals. I would assume that the Pansat case will be heard in appeals as the ruling is not in alignment with the previous court.
Members should continue to defend their rights and to not be pressured by the assumption of guilt until proven innocent!
We appreciate your efforts Brian, keep us informed please. We need to get organized somehow, to protect our hobby, and our rights.
Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if there is no survey, as I feel that it is probably just a ruse for a name grab to possibly do a Direct TV number on the Pansat owners. Seems to me (of course, this is all speculation as I have not seen either Coolsat or Pansat legal request) that after Dish lost the Coolsat ruling, they re-tooled their request to make it seem less invasive (i.e: a survey).
If there is a survey, I would suggest that any true* FTA user who does reply to it, also send a copy of their answers to Pansat so that their answers don't "get lost in the mail" on the way to Dish. As has been mentioned above, can't see that the vast majority of the "eye-patch gang" being stupid enough to admit they steal Dish or BEV to a written survey from Dish! Perhaps (again pure speculation) Dish doesn't mean a written survey, but may be a site survey. We shall see.
* I hate to have to use "true" before FTA, thanks to the "eye-patch gang". Had to correct someone at a party last night who said they had FTA! I said "No, you have Theft From Air, I have FTA."
EDIT: Posted this before I saw SatelliteAV post: "We posted to this thread to point out that members are incorrectly stating that surveys were being taken in the Pansat case. The thread content is based on a fallacy."
Correct, however, customer names have already been obtained by Echostar via subpoenas issued to dealers, and what they plan to do with those names naturally has provoked concern and outrage, and a bit of speculation. They sought and got these names for a reason.
Thank you for that.
Will we need attorneys to defend our rights? Who is going to pay for our legal counsel?
The part of all this that is the biggest crock is were being treated like were criminals when we bought our receivers and are using them for LEGAL FTA. Im sorry if Dish network has lost $$$ due to piracy but that is none of my concern, they should have secured there signal years ago. What right do they have to even attempt to bug us. I all boils down to Dish has bucks and dirty lawyers that will stop at nothing to make Dish richer, more corrupt and powerful. If we agree to there gestapo tactics they will get there way. It's time to stop Charlie, the FCC needs to get involved and threaten to pull his licenses if he don't clean up his act. See how he feels to be told like it is by someone with more clout than him. Dish would be out of business without a license to broadcast then Charlie could go back to corrupt gambling where he started.
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That is my point exactely.
I know letters to the FCC work. Also letters to your Congressman (woman) also allow them to ask intellegent (VOTER'S) question when apppointments come up for confirmation. Yes the organizations I am affiliated with have GOOD attorneys. But letters to the FCC commisioners - each of them individually - actually work and are a whole lot cheaper than defending yourself in court. The lawers work for money. The FCC and congress work for LETTERS! (Or at least letter writers.)
What a joke! If one of them approached me I would laugh in their face. My FTA Dish has a Universal Linear LNBF which CAN NOT recieve any signal whatsoever from Echostar or Nimiq! I mean how dumb can you be! You can't recieve a circular polarity signal with a linear LNBF.
AS of last Friday, only 4 letters to the FCC on the E* campaign, and none with documentation. "NO CAUSE" as yetfor action. The FCC might issue a cause number if anyone actually gets a LETTER.
LOL, Good point. I have the same situtation, no circular LNB, never really needed one.
Charlie needs to get his license pulled to broadcast by the FCC. Then he can go back to gambling to make a living like in the past.
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