DISH Network reports fourth quarter, year-end 2021 financial results

[MrDRC]

Interesting. So things not as dire and bleak as one might have thought. What’s surprising to me is the net losses of sat subscribers. I would have thought it much higher. Considering all the streaming players entering the market in the last 24 months Dish seems to be holding their own with a very loyal base.

Anecdotally, I’ve cut my service back from an H3 and 3 Joeys to one H3 and no locals with top-250. Dish has given me discounts for staying under contract or I might have cut programming too. I don’t watch Dish as much as I used to but I still want the Hopper. I’m thinking I’m not alone.

 

[TheKrell]

I’ve cut my service back from an H3 and 3 Joeys to one H3 and no locals with top-250.

Same here except I had 2 Joey's and I only kept one. I dropped the Movie Pack.

 

[MikeD-C05]

What happens on YouTube TV if you want to keep programs longer than 9 months?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I do believe there is an option to have unlimited streams using the $19.99 4k pack and it gives you unlimited concurent streams at home. But there is no option to keep recordings over 9 months. But when you select a movie & you add it to your library. If that movie comes on again , say 6 months later, it will record it again. Once the 9 months arrives for the original movie recorded it will delete off and you would still have the movie that you recorded 6 months later, until you remove it from your library yourself , otherwise it will delete after the 9 months for that recording. But there is no limit , like 500 hours or 1 tb, to what you can record on the service. You could record everything they have for each day and it would still be there for 9 months. The one good thing with the dvr feature is like you record a tv show series and you add it to your library & it will give you older episodes from the season on that show as well. So you could catch up with something from the beginning. This is a very attractive feature.

 

[Bruce]

I do believe there is an option to have unlimited streams using the $19.99 4k pack and it gives you unlimited concurent streams at home. But there is no option to keep recordings over 9 months. But when you select a movie & you add it to your library. If that movie comes on again , say 6 months later, it will record it again. Once the 9 months arrives for the original movie recorded it will delete off and you would still have the movie that you recorded 6 months later, until you remove it from your library yourself , otherwise it will delete after the 9 months for that recording. But there is no limit , like 500 hours or 1 tb, to what you can record on the service. You could record everything they have for each day and it would still be there for 9 months. The one good thing with the dvr feature is like you record a tv show series and you add it to your library & it will give you older episodes from the season on that show as well. So you could catch up with something from the beginning. This is a very attractive feature.

You are correct in your description of YTTV DVR Service.

Now, I never use the DVR anymore, with every show on Live TV now on streaming services, in much better video ( at least 1080P, some in 1080P/HDR, some in 4K/HDR) and better sound ( Dolby Digital+ and some in Atmos), I prefer to watch them in the better format.

 

[DishSubLA]

from the previous quarter-

The company closed the quarter with 10.98 million Pay-TV subscribers, including 8.42 million DISH TV subscribers and 2.56 million SLING TV subscribers.

So basically a loss of roughly 200,000 sat subs and the rest from Sling, more then Charter’s Video loses (-71,000) but less then Comcast (-373,000).

If DirecTV still reported numbers, I have a hunch they are dropping a lot more then Dish based on their old equipment and super high prices, that 2nd year promo is a shocker, unlike Dish who keeps it the same for the first 2 years.

Edit-

Last report made public, 2nd quarter, 2021, DirecTV had -473,000 Sat. Subs lost, in 2017 D* had 21 million, end of 2020 they had 13 million Sat. Subscriber, based on losses in the first quarter 2021 ( -620,000) and 2nd, estimated 3rd and 4th, say 1 million total, that means DirecTV, roughly, only has 11-12 million Sat. subscribers, down from 22 million in 2017.

At this rate, If Dish is going to buy them, they should hold out a couple of years, by then, they should be able to pick it up for $5.00 and a 6 Pack of Pabst Blue Ribbon

Yeah, but I'd say DirecTV is likely pretty desperate for a buyer right now, as well. I really believe that there have to be very serious, but very quiet, talks going on almost every day between Dish and DTV to find some way to make a deal because both of these services desperately need each other NOW!

 

[DishSubLA]

Why would programmers costs go down because of ratings, it was obvious he was talking about his fees which are affected by ratings ( how many watch that channel), his words-“because of ongoing declines in ratings amid an industry reorientation toward streaming”.

Lower ratings means the studios will spend LESS money to PRODUCE programming because that programming is NOT making as much money as before. It is a rule that the studios ALWAYS cut costs when show slumps in ratings. Simple system to understand. Lower ratings occur because people are not viewing linear TV with it NUMEROUS ads, but are watching A LOT of streaming content with Netflix commercial free and Hulu and other streaming services offering commercial free tiers of subscription.

Ergen was talking about the Linear TV landscape and programming produced for it, and its costs going DOWN but the media companies are NOT lowering their rates to MVPD's like DBS and Cable nor the vMVPD's like Sling or YouTube TV who pay never-ending price increases to acquire the programming, and those never ending price increases for rights to air that programming have to be passed along to the subscribers.

Ergen is such a fast thinker that I've noticed he often isn't the most articulate in that words can come from him in fast fits and bits, and one has to often re-read his statements on these quarterlies, but what Ergen said could be restated as this:

"The media companies are spending LESS to produce programming that our customers see on Dish. This lower cost of production is the result of lower ratings caused by huge numbers of people watching significant amounts of content on streaming services. Yet, while the media companies costs go DOWN to produce programming we provide here on Dish, those same media companies will NOT reduce the rates they charge us in the MVPD business so that we can pass those lower costs on to our customers in the form of lower prices to our subscribers . So, if these companies continue to INCREASE our cost to acquire their content while they LOWER their costs to produce it, we in the linear MVPD business will eventually just go out of business no longer providing a stream of INCOME for those media companies. So, the best thing the media companies can do is match their lower productions costs to LOWER costs to us to air that programming so that we can lower our rates to our subscribers and be in a better position to KEEP subscribers instead of driving them away with price increases every year and the studios keep the stream of income we pay them alive. It is in everyone's interest to pass along any cost savings to the subscribers of MVPD services like Dish at this time."

Now, I would suggest that, if the media companies were to lower its fees it charges MVPD's, Dish and other MVPD's might choose to no longer raise prices for the current subscription levels rather then lower them. However, Dish could create a NEW package of channels at a lower or better value that include channels that are LOWER in cost to Dish to acquire, and that may be sufficiently appealing to subscriber to at least SLOW down the loss of subscribers now occurring with final sake out not being as bad as it otherwise would be. Of course, this along with a Dish/DTV merger could see the combined company not the size either was, but doing a pretty good business that could keep millions of subs in the long run that could be a good, smaller, sustainable business, and even a preferred option for millions of people.

It, the new merged service, could even be marketed as a "premium" service/company, much like how Apple has hypnotized people to OVERPAY for their expensive walled-in garden $30 cables that cost 45 cents to make and even less to ship from China and made by quasi-slave labor (or even real slave labor), and has made Apple a huge success in the USA (not so stupid affluent people in the rest of the world) with that branding and quality that, IMHO, can be matched, and even bettered in some ways, by Android. Then again, snobs can't carry their Cable/Sat vMVPD (Sling/YouTube TV) around to show off to everyone .

 

[fmj77]

Satellite TV is going the way of the Dodo bird. Not only are Dish and DTV bleeding customers, but their satellites are aging and neither company has any plans to launch replacement birds. When the current fleet reaches end of life it's lights out.

 

[navychop]

They, or at least Dish, will morph with the times and technology. Seems to already be underway.

 

[fmj77]

So what about those who can't get reliable broadband internet and where OTA isn't an option either? Are they just SOL?

 

[Bruce]

So what about those who can't get reliable broadband internet and where OTA isn't an option either? Are they just SOL?

Star Link for one, should be going at Full Strength by the time the Satellites fail and DirecTV’s Sats have awhile to go, Dish is moving one that was built in 2017 ( was for Latin America) to 110, so that will help.

What DirecTV/Dish has to worry about is loss of subscribers, DirecTV more then Dish, they are down roughly 10 million sat. subs since 2017 ( 21 million), down to 13 million sat. subs at the end of 2020, lost another million in Quarter 1 and 2, 2021 ( reported) and estimated another 600,000-1,000,000 in Quarter 3 and 4 ( not reported because of TPG buying 30% of DirecTV).

Dish’s losses are bad, about 5 million, but seem to be slowing down, DirecTV’s losses are going to get worse with Sunday Ticket leaving, plus the high prices and old equipment ( Boxes), they will be lucky to go 5 more years before they are no longer profitable.