Dish Network: Distant Networks

I remember when I first got Dish in 97 and we had the Primetime 24 stations : East coast & West coast networks. I loved it. We could watch something we missed from the west coast and record it with the vcr. This is when we only had one tuner so time shifting was cool back then. This feature would still be nice for most people .

IT was also nice to be able to see network programming when one of our local stations in Beaumont/ Pt. Arthur, Texas dma would decide to censor something they didn't think we should watch. Case in Point the origional run episode of Ross's Ex-wife getting married to her lesbian girlfriend on "Friends".

Our local Nbc station Kjac 4 decided this was to contraversial to put on local tv. Mind you they had no problem with the "Jerry Springer Show" at the time which was 95% more violent and filthy in its show content , but still the manager made the universal decision to censor this offensive show.

THat is when I went with the distant networks for New York/ L. A. networks. I never had to worry about small minded people deciding anything tv related for me again. This is one of the perks of having distant networks beside time shifting.
 
Time-shifting (i.e. watching something earlier) is my main reason for really having east coast networks. Having a DVR now makes it less of an perk, but the networks don't like people time-shifting or skipping through commercial breaks.

Well, they can't have it both ways. Take away the DNS' and you leave me no choice but to time-shift because I'm not going to stay up until 9-10 to watch something during the week when I have to get up at 4am and go to work. I'll DVR it and watch the next afternoon when I get home from the office.
 
micklewhite said:
By the way, don't be too confident about what you know. I don't live in California but the Midwest as is indicated on every post (don't know why minnow didn't see that) but I happen to be in Georgia at the moment (bet you didn't guess that). The relay router I use (with about a hundred other people) is back home. I only have a telephone line here. Techniques such as IP analysis or route tracing are of limited use. I could spoof being in New York and Seattle simultaneously.

oh boy. Ya want a cookie or something?

I still think its options C & D :)
 
and the reason I will continue to keep my distants is because our local Fox station LOVES to pre-empt programming for.....

weather

yep. Weather can be 200 miles north of my area and they still pre-empt programming for "non stop" weather that isnt near us

The last draw was whent hey pre-empted the NASCAR race for 2 hours due to a storm that was not even in the DMA's mian area

flipped on a distant..voila....could watch the race
 
You people are acting ridiculous, like a bunch of four-year olds when told by your parents you cannot have a candy bar.

On this thread, micklewhite has and for years I have been telling you about the rights associated with programming. You have Mike D-C05, long_time_DNC, GaryPen and Iceberg talking about the needs of distant feeds because you can find an alternative, either because of time-shifting or pre-emptions.

Funny. Does Dish Network have a contract with a network station to distribute the feed nationwide, just as Dish Network does for ESPN and HBO?

NO.
 
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GaryPen said:
And.. a strong argument could be made against the coinstituationality of such blockage of (I know I sound like a broken record here, but some people don't get it) FREE BROADCAST SIGNALS VIA FREE BROADCAST SPECTRUM.
So, instead, I could...

Grab the broadcast of the next Super Bowl
Retransmit it to everyone and throw in my own advertising
Then package the game as highlights and sell them as DVDs
Make millions of dollars

Because I should be able to take a signal broadcast for free and do anything I'd like to it.

Nothing un-Constitutional about that.
 
boy921 said:
I can't argue with you here, however as I recall, I was able to legally receive all the network channels, both E and W feeds for a small fee back in the 90's. Laws were then made so I could only get feeds for my area. Then more laws were made so I could only get the distance if I qualified. Sounds more like the, "goons" forcibly took them from me.
So, let me break down for you the problem with this thought process.

boy921 legally received all network channels back in the 90's
laws were made to only get feeds from his areas
more laws were made so he could only get DNS if he qualfied.

Sorry, that is incorrect. If one truly qualified in the 90's, then you should still be receiving distant networks today. Nothing in the qualifications for distant networks has changed during the past 10 years to those that already truly qualified.
 
Greg Brimson said:
So, let me break down for you the problem with this thought process.

boy921 legally received all network channels back in the 90's
laws were made to only get feeds from his areas
more laws were made so he could only get DNS if he qualified.

Sorry, that is incorrect. If one truly qualified in the 90's, then you should still be receiving distant networks today. Nothing in the qualifications for distant networks has changed during the past 10 years to those that already truly qualified.
Close but no cigar. There was no qualification in the early 90's. You either subscribed to distance or you didn't. There was no regulation then. It was a choice regardless if you had networks in your area. I was cut off all distance when the law came into effect and was first enforced. After that I got a waiver and was able to get the CBS distant. Now because E* has failed to comply with the law, I'm now at risk at losing the CBS distant.
 
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long_time_DNC said:
Pre-empted for weather? Most stations usually just run a ticker on the screen a few times.
oh no. This was a full blown "weather alert" that the weather was not even close to the immediate Mpls area. My dad damn near shot his TV because he wanted the NASCAR race. :)

A 2 hour pre-empt must mean a rather self-important weather staff...or they've got nothing better to do.
both. The weather people on our fox station can't predict the weather for noon if it was 11:30 in the morning.

But they're sooooooooooo excited that we may hit 100 today or tomorrow. 1st time in 11 years and they are psyching this up like the damn pope is coming. Then again, these are the people that when it might snow have "operation winter"
 
Greg Bimson said:
Nothing in the qualifications for distant networks has changed during the past 10 years to those that already truly qualified.

That is only true if the person has maintained the distant networks for the entire time, If the networks were intentionally or accidentally dropped, suspended, or anything, most people who used to qualify legally do not now without the use of waivers. Those who live in areas where locals are available via their satellite carrier no longer legally qualify for distants regardless of their ability to receive local channels OTA.

I know the legal arguments as to why DNS is a bad thing. I just no longer care. If my "local" stations would stop having continuous morphing maps that take up 10% of the screen every time there is a cloud in the sky, logos that take up another 10% telling me how local they are (even though most have zero local programming except the news), crawls that take up another huge chunk of the screen when there is a fender-bender on a street three counties over I would probably watch them by choice!

Some call it childish, but if people in one store that sells CSI lunch boxes slap you in the face every time you walk in the door, eventually you will go to another store that sells CSI lunch boxes there the employees don't slap you in the face when you walk in!

See ya
Tony
 
TNGTony said:
I know the legal arguments as to why DNS is a bad thing. I just no longer care. If my "local" stations would stop having continuous morphing maps that take up 10% of the screen every time there is a cloud in the sky, logos that take up another 10% telling me how local they are (even though most have zero local programming except the news), crawls that take up another huge chunk of the screen when there is a fender-bender on a street three counties over I would probably watch them by choice!


so true! :)
 
TNGTony said:
I know the legal arguments as to why DNS is a bad thing. I just no longer care. If my "local" stations would stop having continuous morphing maps that take up 10% of the screen every time there is a cloud in the sky, logos that take up another 10% telling me how local they are (even though most have zero local programming except the news), crawls that take up another huge chunk of the screen when there is a fender-bender on a street three counties over I would probably watch them by choice!
exactly, living 300 miles away from your "local" stations sucks who cares if the Interstate in Albuqurque is blocked when it is so far away...Thats why I like the DNS...(grandfathered)
 
Greg Bimson said:
So, instead, I could...

Grab the broadcast of the next Super Bowl
Retransmit it to everyone and throw in my own advertising
Then package the game as highlights and sell them as DVDs
Make millions of dollars

Because I should be able to take a signal broadcast for free and do anything I'd like to it.

Nothing un-Constitutional about that.
Read much? That was not what I was saying at all. In fact, I mentioned specifically that if any fees are charged to the sub for retransmission, then the originator of the prgram should be compensated. I see nothing wrong with laws to prevent the distance provider from adding commercials or recovering more than the cost of transmission, unless some other arrangment was agreed to by the parties involved.

But, what you and micklewhite, and other defenders of this archaic system and unconstitutional law don't understand is that it has absolutely nothing to do with copyright protection and/or the originators of the programming. That is the smokescreen perpertrated by the owners of non-o&o network affiliates. They want you to watch their programming and their commercials.

Until a few years ago, viewers had no choice. The physical limitations of the technology prevented them from watching out-of-market programming. Well...that's changed. And, instead of the industry trying to change with it, they lobbied for laws to artificially perpetuate the antiquated system.

It's not unlike the TV industy's fight against VCR's and now DVR's. Or, the recording industry's fight against audio cassette's, digital tape, CDR, MP3, and file sharing. Or, the film industry's fight againt video rentals and DVD-r. All of those industries adapted, and now enjoy huge revenue from those technologies. (The ones that still exist, of course.)

I guarantee that the networks themselves would love to broadcast directly to the viewers, bypassing the local affiliates altogether. Trust me, they aren't the ones behind this stupid law. And it's their copyrighted material you are so worried about.

So, stop trying to defend this stupid law with your cries of 'copyright protection". It's just a smokescreen obscuring the real reason "local affiliate protection of an century old media distribution system".
 
GaryPen said:
Read much? That was not what I was saying at all. In fact, I mentioned specifically that if any fees are charged to the sub for retransmission, then the originator of the prgram should be compensated. I see nothing wrong with laws to prevent the distance provider from adding commercials or recovering more than the cost of transmission, unless some other arrangment was agreed to by the parties involved.

Well, right now fees are charged to the sub and the originator is paid royalties. This is usually the case for copyrighted materials. The question is who gets to decide when and how the material is distributed. Should it be you, the distributor or the owner?

But, what you and micklewhite, and other defenders of this archaic system and unconstitutional law don't understand is that it has absolutely nothing to do with copyright protection and/or the originators of the programming. That is the smokescreen perpertrated by the owners of non-o&o network affiliates. They want you to watch their programming and their commercials.

I think Greg and I understand the system very well. It has everything to do with copyright. It is in Title 17 of the United States Code. Title 17 is....drum roll please....Copyrights! You keep saying that the system is unconstitutional over and over again as if by doing so you can make it come true. It is not true. The Constitution specifically and explicitly gives Congress the power over copyright. Whatever the motivations of the copyright owner it doesn't change the law. The fact that you are peeved does not change the law. The fact that you want, want, want does not change the law. You need to grow up.

Until a few years ago, viewers had no choice. The physical limitations of the technology prevented them from watching out-of-market programming. Well...that's changed. And, instead of the industry trying to change with it, they lobbied for laws to artificially perpetuate the antiquated system.

The physical limitations of the technology still prevents such viewing. You cannot, on your own, receive LA stations in NY. You require the assistance of a DBS company. The signals are encrypted for a reason. Otherwise you could use the appropriate FTA receiver and set up a dish without the need for E* or D*.

It's not unlike the TV industy's fight against VCR's and now DVR's. Or, the recording industry's fight against audio cassette's, digital tape, CDR, MP3, and file sharing. Or, the film industry's fight againt video rentals and DVD-r. All of those industries adapted, and now enjoy huge revenue from those technologies. (The ones that still exist, of course.)

The only similarity is the concern for people using new technology to steal the property of others. If you copy tapes/CD's/DVD's/whatever in violation of the copyright law you are a thief. End of story. Why is it that someone who (we hope) would not think of shoplifting a CD has no qualms about stealing it at home? Is the locus of the crime really make a difference to you?

I guarantee that the networks themselves would love to broadcast directly to the viewers, bypassing the local affiliates altogether. Trust me, they aren't the ones behind this stupid law. And it's their copyrighted material you are so worried about.

No - because the networks do not fill the entire day. They rely on local affiliates for some part of the programming. They also need to meet their public interest charge. But even assuming that what you say is true, our elected representatives have decided that the system in place is the best choice. I suppose that could change down the line but as long as most viewers have an interest in local programming I doubt it.

So, stop trying to defend this stupid law with your cries of 'copyright protection". It's just a smokescreen obscuring the real reason "local affiliate protection of an century old media distribution system".

Both are important considerations. The goal of localism (it is a goal whether you agree or not) is protected by the mechanisms of the copyright law. That is simply fact. I understand you think a different model would be better. Work towards it but don't smear others by claiming that heartfelt convictions are a "smokescreen."

The End
 
cj9788 said:
Mick,

You have an agenda and it is clear that YOU do not want any one to receive DNS. Does this look familiar?

Don't be dopey.

"How many NETWORK feeds do you need? DNS was not authorized so you can watch the local news or sports in a different city. It was to provide network programming to those who could not receive it any other way."

This is a true statement. If you qualify for DNS, I have no problem with you receiving it.

" If you have LIL (or can get it) there is no reason for you to get DNS (and it is a violation of the law). "

With a few exceptions, this is the law. If you do not qualify for DNS, I do not want you getting DNS. I don't care if you drink yourself into a stupor but I don't want you robbing the local liquor store to do it.

"Your distants are somebody Else's locals. So why are you willing to pay for multiple buckets of 20 hour a day INFOMERCIAL crap!"

Well, why are you willing to pay if this is what you think of local TV?

"I watch very little network TV but I have a plethora of other choices. What exactly do you get from a distant network that you don't on the local that is so important to you? "


This is a question.

You are a smart poster you have a lot of valid points but your holier than thou attitude is oozing and dripping from most of your posts. It is clear that you do not approve of DNS for every one but if people want it and are willing to pay for it why does it bother you so much?

Holier than thou? I think not unless you believe that stating theft is wrong is being HTH. Do you? I don't approve of DNS for everyone because that's what the law says and nobody has made an argument why the law is immoral. I don't approve of illegal behavior. I don't approve of kiddie porn even though there are those willing to pay for it. I don't approve of a 13 year old buying beer even though he's willing to pay for it. I don't approve of you taking your neighbor's car even though you leave him the fair market value in cash. Why is this concept so difficult for you to understand?

I am upset with E* as well. They should have had the records available to the courts. There are thousands of subs that are in white areas and with waivers able to recv DNS and E* failed to produce the records. Why? I do not know, but i do know that E* did do alot to comply especially after the June 2003 ruling. E* cut many many many subs of. They changed the address broker to limit the number of eligible DNS subs. They re-qualified every one. Why was that evidence not provided to the court. After 2003 if you did not reside in or "move" to a white area you could not have DNS with E*. So how you or the NAB can say E* did not do enough is beyond comprehension.

Perhaps we can agree that certain (legal) DNS subscribers were badly served by E* and completely innocent of any wrongdoing. This is unfortunate but the innocent often suffer from their association with the guilty. A child's parent goes to prison. A fraternity is kicked off campus. A Lebanese woman is living in the same house as Hezbollah. Man's justice is imperfect and I think in the scheme of things losing DNS is a triviality.
TheEnd
 
But you do not smear. What a load of crap. You still want to control people by telling them us that we have to have locals no matter what.For some reason known only to you the fact that people have DNS and or do not have them and want them is wrong. Like I said earlier oozing and dripping with holier than thou self righteous bull sh*t.
 
cj9788 said:
But you do not smear. What a load of crap. You still want to control people by telling them us that we have to have locals no matter what.For some reason known only to you the fact that people have DNS and or do not have them and want them is wrong. Like I said earlier oozing and dripping with holier than thou self righteous bull sh*t.

You really ought to read more carefully. I don't want to "control" people. I want people to obey the law. Whether you have locals is entirely up to you. If you have DNS legally no problem. If you obtain DNS illegally - problem. Now my philosophy is that LIL is a good thing and should be implemented nationwide ASAP. At that point, the reason that DNS was made available (not necessarily the reason you want them) pretty much goes away. If you want to be the decisionmaker - run for Congress.
 

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