DISH Network and Echostar Statement Regarding PTO Ruling

[David_Levin]

Here's an interesting link where someone quoted a note from Stifel Financial (I can't find the souce, so I'm not going to paste it in):

Yahoo! Message Boards - TiVo Inc. (TIVO) - New Stifel Note on TIVO...

This is a major Tivo Fanboy investor forum and it's quite interesting watching those guys squirm and convince themselves that all is OK.

One of the Stifel comments considered that the En Banc judge could send the case back to the district court for retrial. This could take enough time for the Patent case to be resolved. Wouldn't this make sense if Judge Rader doesn't want to rule against Dish with the patent in question ?

 

[Poke]

Yeah Dish should just buy out Tivo and be done with it.

 

[Albie2]

Its a final decission now. Before it wasn't.

Of course while its final Tivo has a year to appeal the ruling and if they do the patent stays in effect until the appeal is ruled upon.

My question is will TiVO have enough money to keep it going that long?

There was a beer commercial on TV which said it best... "Know when to say when."

Scott, TIVO has to keep going with it as it is their only hope for survival as a company. If they don't have enforceable patents (And the associated licensing deals) then they are done. In their history they have never had an operating profit, even when they had a much larger subscriber base than they have now.

 

[navychop]

I wonder where "Thomas" is? What's he goin' do with this pimpin?

Maybe they had to let him go.........

Scott, TIVO has to keep going with it as it is their only hope for survival as a company. If they don't have enforceable patents (And the associated licensing deals) then they are done. In their history they have never had an operating profit, even when they had a much larger subscriber base than they have now.

Very true.

 

[Claude Greiner]

In plain English this says "TIVO IS SCREWED!"

 

[Albie2]

Here's an interesting link where someone quoted a note from Stifel Financial (I can't find the souce, so I'm not going to paste it in):

Yahoo! Message Boards - TiVo Inc. (TIVO) - New Stifel Note on TIVO...

This is a major Tivo Fanboy investor forum and it's quite interesting watching those guys squirm and convince themselves that all is OK.

One of the Stifel comments considered that the En Banc judge could send the case back to the district court for retrial. This could take enough time for the Patent case to be resolved. Wouldn't this make sense if Judge Rader doesn't want to rule against Dish with the patent in question ?

I also find this morsel from the Stiffel Nicholas guy interesting

" We understand that the trend toward upholding examiner rejections has increased, so that the current overall rate of
reversal is only around 20%. This includes reversals both of the initial decision to deny a patent as well as
reexaminations invalidating patents, and we understand that the rate of reversing decisions to invalidate a patent in
a reexamination process is even lower. "

Would make it very difficult for Judge Folsom to uphold his own contempt order on the design around when the original patent claims have been invalidated and the chances of reversal of the invalidation are quite small. Then again Dish only had a 3% chance of being granted an en Banc review of their appeal. Me thinks this will be a very studied case in the future of IP litigation both in terms of what to do and what not to do.

 

[dmendenjr]

Thought I saw something about a google/Tivo coupling in on one of those financial news feeds the other day... here it is TiVo: What’s Next In A Google TV World?

Should the big "G" outright buy TiVO, I wonder if the litigation E* would be dropped (since e* and Google are partners on the Google TV initiative).

While looking for that story I saw this one posted this morning "Watch for TiVo to Rebound after Falling 2.40% Yesterday (TIVO) Written on Tue, 06/08/2010 - 4:19am"(source)

 

[navychop]

Re: Stifel:

"We believe this process could extend into 2012."

Does he think DirecTV or anybody else is going to fund TiVo to keep them around until 2012? After today, even the bottom feeders will likely shy away.

 

[whatchel1]

May happen

What may happen at the en banc is the that the judges will postpone any decision until the PTO & TIVO have final agreement (pending a possible appeal). Can TIVO hope to be able to hold out that long. Now the other companies that TIVO has tried to screw will also apply for some type of postponement in those cases. I think that we may be seeing the real reason that MGT of TIVO took their money recently when they could. Charlie may be able to buy TIVO at the fire sale as the stock is likely to hit a new low.

 

[TheForce]

Quick math lesson- Tivo has $244M in cash and a market cap of 890 Million. Charlie could buy the company for $650 Million and end all this nonsense. That assumes the stock holders would sell at present day prices.
Interesting that the insiders had options in the $7 per share range sold at the $17 range couple months ago and are sitting happy now. Those who held are now losers, big time, especially if you bought in when it was high. Somebody sure bought all those shares that were dumped on the market by the insiders.

 

[flyingsquirrel]

THe most natural thing to happen is that the court will send the case back to the trial court for retrial-rehearing, and while that process drags on, the PTO case ends with Tivo losing.

Then it finally will be over.

Unless Charlie buys TIVO first. But the stock price would need to drop below about 5 first, I would think. It's too expensive now.

 

[David_Levin]

What may happen at the en banc is the that the judges will postpone any decision until the PTO & TIVO have final agreement

Does the court need a legal reason to postpone? Is the patent question a legal reason to postpone? As of today the patent is valid and the court may have to act based on that (which could be to accept the Dish work-around or return the case to the District court).

Charlie may be able to buy TIVO at the fire sale as the stock is likely to hit a new low.

But what is TiVo worth (with the patent in question)? It might only be worth the cash in the bank and the copper wires/plumbing burried in the walls of the building. It might have been purchased already if not for the "Poison Pill" (doesn't this push the price into the 30's).

Stockholders think the Poison Pill is great, but because of it they could end up with nothing.

Edit: And then there's the Charlie Factor. He just may want to drive them into the ground.

 

[David_Levin]

Poison Pill

Did a quick search and found this:
Is Dish considering swallowing TiVo's $7.5 billion poison pill? -- Engadget HD

Mentions $71/share, but it's a year old.

Don mentions the stock holders accepting the buyout. Is that the antidote for the pill ? Charlie would throw a low-ball number. I guess it depends how scared they are.

 

[sparc]

Should the big "G" outright buy TiVO, I wonder if the litigation E* would be dropped (since e* and Google are partners on the Google TV initiative).

i don't know if i'd want to buy a company where it's entire existence is based on patents that are slowly getting invalidated.

Plus they basically alienated a good number of technology companies already via lawsuits. That mess would have to get unwound by whomever takes over Tivo. Probably going to be one big expensive mess to sort out.

IMO, tivo is only worth it for whatever patents they have left and just wind down the rest of their failed business model.

I'm glad Dish at least has a foot in the door now to try and stop TIVO from collecting more money they don't deserve. Might keep our wallets from getting raped by Dish for at least a little longer than before.

 

[Crazy_Legs]

i don't know if i'd want to buy a company where it's entire existence is based on patents that are slowly getting invalidated.

Plus they basically alienated a good number of technology companies already via lawsuits. That mess would have to get unwound by whomever takes over Tivo. Probably going to be one big expensive mess to sort out.

IMO, tivo is only worth it for whatever patents they have left and just wind down the rest of their failed business model.

I completely agree. Why would Google buy an outdated sinking ship? Ok, cool, they can save it from sinking, but what use is it after that? I can rebuild a Ford Pinto, but after I put all that money into it I realized I just got done spending all this money to polish a turd.

Riddle me this Batman. Why should Charlie waste the money to expedite putting TiVO out of business if the money he would spend doing so would be more than the legal fees to let them die on their own? I mean really, if I know my enemy is TRULY dieing (court rulings = more nails in the coffin) why would I spend the money knowing that at the end of the day, they will be dead regardless. I rather let them die a slow death and save me money in the process UNLESS I get TiVO for a AWESOME price AND I get the contracts that come with it. Let's not forget Charlies biggest thing is getting his foot in the door with cable companies and TiVO has contracts with some AND DirecTV.

If Charlie does buy it out, it will be under the E* hat, not Dish.

 

[mike123abc]

Don mentions the stock holders accepting the buyout. Is that the antidote for the pill ? Charlie would throw a low-ball number. I guess it depends how scared they are.

The poison pill only happens if the board of directors does not approve of the share purchase -- in other words a hostile takeover. If the board approves of the tender offer, then there is no poison pill. It is triggered if someone goes over a certain % of shares ownership without board approval.

 

[whatchel1]

MOre than 1 patent

Does the court need a legal reason to postpone? Is the patent question a legal reason to postpone? As of today the patent is valid and the court may have to act based on that (which could be to accept the Dish work-around or return the case to the District court).



But what is TiVo worth (with the patent in question)? It might only be worth the cash in the bank and the copper wires/plumbing burried in the walls of the building. It might have been purchased already if not for the "Poison Pill" (doesn't this push the price into the 30's).

Stockholders think the Poison Pill is great, but because of it they could end up with nothing.

Edit: And then there's the Charlie Factor. He just may want to drive them into the ground.

They have more than 1 patent but the ones against E* is now what is jeopardy.
Now the real reason that all of this has happened is Bob Howler (Haller) just bought a TIVO. As soon as that happened TIVO was doomed. I warned you about getting that TIVO Bob.

 

[KAB]

As my Grandmother used to say, "It's a Glorious Day".

 

[KAB]

FROM: WSJ

2nd UPDATE: US Patent Office Rejects TiVo's Software Claims - WSJ.com

 

[navychop]

They have more than 1 patent but the ones against E* is now what is jeopardy.
Now the real reason that all of this has happened is Bob Howler (Haller) just bought a TIVO. As soon as that happened TIVO was doomed. I warned you about getting that TIVO Bob.

And we all know how Bob loves paying monthly fees!