DISH Install Question RE: Signal Strength and Splitters

[abillmann]

Hi All,

An installation question/dilemma:

I'm moving to an apartment that is currently wired for cable but has no DBS systems. The landlord will allow a dish, but will not allow any additional coax to be run or holes to be drilled--bottom line, the existing wiring must be used. The place is less than a year old and it appears that the contractor who did the wiring did a good job...heavy RG-6 throughout, a few feet of slack left near boxes, high-quality connectors, etc.

It appears that from the cable demarc on the side of the building, there's a single long run of coax (maybe 60 feet) to my apartment, at which point it hits a 3-way splitter in the attic which feeds three different rooms. Simple enough. Problem is, I don't have access to the splitter, and even if I did, it would be unlikely that the landlord would allow me to remove it anyway.

My question: With good quality coax, and presumably a decent 3-way splitter, is there likely to be enough signal strength coming off the Dish to make it through to the existing wall plates? (The total run length would be about 75'.) Or is that simply an impossibility?

The one positive thing is that the Dish has a clear and completely unobstructed look at both 110 and 119. And it's just a single one-room installation.

I'm open to the idea of "Just try it and see," but as someone who's installed 5 systems, I'd hate to go through the time, hassle and expense if someone out there knows it won't work.

Any thoughts, experiences, insights, insults, words of encouragement or sympathy would be greatly appreciated!

 

[RandallA]

You can NOT use splitters with satellite. Given the circumstances, the 3 way splitters must be removed in order for you to have satellite.

How many receivers would you need? You can feed dual tuners with one single cable with DPP Technology (DPP Twin or DPP44 switch) but the 3 way splitter must go.

 

[abillmann]

Just one receiver.

See my dilemma? If I could get to the splitter, I could simply remove it, couple the two lines and all would be fine. But since I can't, is there ANY kind of amplifier or way this could work?

I have a feeling that essentially, my landlord is (unknowingly) forcing me to go with cable.

 

[dirkleearm]

Is it possible for you to have the dish outside your apt and run a cable through the window with a smash cable to your rx? I've had to do that at many apts to comply with there rules.

 

[abillmann]

Unfortunately, no. I thought of that also, but the problem is that the location of the Dish itself is exactly opposite from where the apartment is.

The cable would have to go under sidewalks and then run up the side of the building. I'm sure the landlord wouldn't go for this...her business is on the first floor, with apartments above. Justifiably, she wants to keep her new building clean, free of excessive wires and holes.

I can't move the Dish location either, because directly outside of the windows means the dish would aim directly into the building.

[Feeling the Charter Cable blues starting. Reaching for liquor and sedatives...]

 

[RandallA]

The problem with regular splitters is that they are rated to 1000 Mhz. Satellite frequencies go up to 2150 Mhz. Also, the satellite LNBs use voltage from the receivers to power up and splitters could burn up because of the voltage going through them.

If you can get to the 3 way splitter and replace it with a barrel connector rated to 3 Ghz you might be able to pull it off, otherwise looks like cable is your only alternative.

 

[jordae]

just use diplexers, at each end of that cable.

 

[Jared Twomey]

just use diplexers, at each end of that cable.

cant do that... the 3-way splitter will kill the signal in between the diplexers.

The reason the splitter wont work is that most cable splitters are NOT "power-passing".... meaning it will not, and is not designed to pass 18 volts of DC power that the dish requires. On the highly unlikely event that they installed a "power-passing" splitter (again, highly, highly unlikely) then it would work with only one reciever

 

[abillmann]

See? I knew you guys would know!

I'll see if I can sweet-talk my landlord into allowing me to poke around in the attic. If that actually happens, and I find the splitter, I'm assuming the best thing to do is simply disconnect it, and couple the two pieces of coax together (using good quality connectors.)

 

[SmityWhity]

Some things to think of that may help.

1. If you haven't looked, maybe there's a cable/coax distribution panel in one of the closets, instead of a splitter in the attic.

2. As jordae recommended, ask her if you could reconfigure the 3-way splitter with a splitter/diplexer so that it will feed both cable and satellite signals to a certain room, and that when you leave, everything would still work, or you could put it back the same way.

3. It was said a splitter won't work, however, there are 5 - 2150 MHz splitters with and without DC blocking that I believe would work for both cable and satellite. If you are able to get in the attic and poke around, maybe just swap the splitter with a 3-way splitter with DC passing, or at least 1 port DC passing.

4. Maybe ask her if you could install a home node (Eagle Aspen), and would be willing to leave it when you moved out.

5. But even better, ask if she would allow you to professionally install a satellite dish with diplexers, and/or anything else that you might need, so that the apartment would be wired for both cable and satellite; and then you would leave the installation (except receiver) for her exclusive use.

 

[chadzx11]

like smitty said, check your closets. Mechanical ones to be specific (those are the ones that have water heaters and furnaces in them). Only an idiot would install a splitter where there would be no future access. Are you sure all 3 drops don't stubb out in the lock box?

 

[abillmann]

There's definitely nothing in the closets--no boxes. The attic is easy to access, but as I said, I haven't been up there, and I'm not sure if Pebbles (yeah, believe it or not, that's her real name) will allow me up there or not.

As for the cabling, I'm making the following assumption: Since there are 8 different coax leads coming out of the cable demarc box and running directly into the building, and because there are 8 "units" (5 apartments, 2 businesses, and 1 empty commercial space), each "unit" would have it's own long run of coax. At that point, it would be split (by SOME method) to provide for three drops (between the studs) into each unit.

So I guess I don't know for sure if this is being done with a traditional splitter or a distribution box, but this configuration would make the most sense, wouldn't it? Essentially, run long wires to each of 8 units, then drop short wires from there.

All of your ideas and suggestions are fantastic... can't thank you all enough! It sounds like the key to the whole thing is figuring out exactly WHERE and HOW the coax splits, and by what means.

I'm not all that interested in going with diplexers or multi-function splitters because those investments will be mine alone. Instead, a single decent coupler for $3.00 solves the problem perfectly. Assuming Pebbles lets me into the attic, I could easily put things back as they were for future tenants. She's not an unreasonable person, but she's definitely concerned with the appearance of her brand new building. (I give her credit for her aesthetic standards, actually.)

 

[Jared Twomey]

Only an idiot would install a splitter where there would be no future access.

and yet its amazing how many contractors and electricians still do the "daisy-chain a million splitters in the wall" method, at least in this area.... and then the homeowner gets all pissed off at you when you cant use the wiring in their brand new house.....

i had the same problem at an apartment i used to live in, and i didnt ask(my landlord was insanely unreasonable), i just went in the attic, found the splitter, and put in a barrel.
As mentioned earlier in this thread, you can also get "power-passing" splitters that would work if you are only going to be hooking up one reciever, that way even after you left, everything would still be ready to work for cable

 

[SmityWhity]

As mentioned earlier in this thread, you can also get "power-passing" splitters that would work if you are only going to be hooking up one reciever, that way even after you left, everything would still be ready to work for cable

Yes, and they are not that much more than a $3 barrel.

 

[bhelms]

I agree with birddoggy - it's always easier to ask for foregiveness than for permission! Just go into the attic (assuming it's accessible without having to "break and enter") and check it out for yourself!

Building on another thought he had - maybe that long run from the D-mark to your appartment enters into one wall box in your apartment then "daisy chains" from there to the other boxes? Easy enough to find out - just open the boxes and look for splitters in there. If you do find one or more, report back and I can tell you how to proceed from there...

 

[abillmann]

Luckily, they DON'T daisy chain. From the way everything appears, the wiring topography seems to be well-planned. (Well, well-planned for cable, anyway.)