DISH Drops AMC Networks (AMC Back on DISH channel 131)

[jbrelish]

Dish, and other providers need to stop this "hostage" situation that seems to come up more and more often where they threaten to remove channels and tell users to call some phone number or website to complain and then they just ignore the complaints. It's always about money, and from where I sit, as long as the owners of these companies are living a better lifestyle than I am, And i know for certain that they do. They're all multi mega millionaires who have more wealth than any individual ought to be allowed to amass, (why society allows such inequality to continue without mounting an armed insurrection like France in 1789, is beyond me, but thats another discussion altogether) I have no sympathy for them when they refuse to just pay for the channels out of their own pocket if necessary. So poor Charlie ( who strikes me as being a major a**hole) will have to get by with a smaller yacht or only one jet. Boohoo. Or here's another idea..why not let the customers decide if they want to pay a few cents a month extra for the disputed channels instead of arrogantly deciding that they'll make the decision for you whether you like it or not.

From what I've seen now and in the past is the content providers are using the hostage tactic, not the retransmission companies. I'll ask this question to you, would you rather have the retransmission provider just accept what ever fee increase the content providers demand? I for one am glad that Dish just doesn't roll over and agree to huge increases.

And yes its about money, do you think people start businesses because they have nothing better to do. And from the rest of you statements it appears you suffer from severe "envy". You still have the ability to attempt to become just as wealthy. This country does not (yet) fall under the society of the French Revolution(as you quote) nor the Russian Revolution.

And back to topic, if Dish were to just okay a price increase (Dish deems excessive) without question then think of what signal that would give the next content provider. You know a provider would assume they could get just as much or even more.

Personally if a company/business is making decisions I feel are unreasonable, then presently I do have the ability to find like services or products elsewhere. Its how I came to use Dish, I hated local cable. If AMC was a game buster for me I would be looking for a new provider. I like you still have a choice in the matter. And yes, if AMC is important to you,by all means contact Dish and AMC both and tell them you want this resolved.

 

[jbrelish]

Does EVERY Dish network subscriber watch AMC? I'm guessing not. So AMC would NOT lose 14 million "viewers".

Mad Men's finale only pulled in 2.7 million viewers, and its one of the highest rated shows on the network. That 2.7 million encompases Dish, Direct, and all the cable subscribers. The Killing only had 1.4 million for it's finale.

So I don't think Dish dropping AMC will create such a huge drop in ratings as some here would have you believe.

Don't know the numbers personally, but every one of the subscribers who do want AMC should address it with both Dish and AMC. I wonder if there is a way to determine the exact number of Dish subscribers who watch AMC? Would be interesting to know that number,not a polling type data assumption.

 

[osu1991]

Does EVERY Dish network subscriber watch AMC? I'm guessing not. So AMC would NOT lose 14 million "viewers".

Mad Men's finale only pulled in 2.7 million viewers, and its one of the highest rated shows on the network. That 2.7 million encompases Dish, Direct, and all the cable subscribers. The Killing only had 1.4 million for it's finale.

So I don't think Dish dropping AMC will create such a huge drop in ratings as some here would have you believe.

Correct -- A drop in viewers and ratings probably not much, but a drop in advertising revenue, definitely.
Dish pays AMC for the number of subscribers in the package that AMC is in, since AMC is in the base package, AMC is losing 14 million subscribers, whether those 14 million actually watched the channel or not, that is 14 million fewer subscribers that AMC can pitch to their advertisers. So it is going to hurt AMC much more than it is going to hurt Dish.

 

[JM42]

Does EVERY Dish network subscriber watch AMC? I'm guessing not. So AMC would NOT lose 14 million "viewers".

Mad Men's finale only pulled in 2.7 million viewers, and its one of the highest rated shows on the network. That 2.7 million encompases Dish, Direct, and all the cable subscribers. The Killing only had 1.4 million for it's finale.

So I don't think Dish dropping AMC will create such a huge drop in ratings as some here would have you believe.

AMC is in about 97 million homes. They will lose 14 million. A 14% reduction in their viewership will be a huge hit. Between the immediate loss of subscription revenue, and assuming a 14% loss of ad revenue flows through fairly quickly, AMC wil get hurt by this much more than Dish in the near term.

Dish will lose some subs, if every single Dish subscriber that watched the Walking Dead finale dropped Dish it would be about 1.4 million subs (14% of 10.5 million viewers, assuming the worst case and unrealistic for Dish scenario of only one viewer per household). It's probably more like 700K subs assuming 2 viewers per HH. It won't be anywhere near that though, I would be surprised if 10% of AMC viewers actually switch, even if it's 20% it is a much smaller part of Dish than it is AMC.

My gut feeling is that Dish can ride this out a lot longer than AMC, and is willing to.

 

[Laddyboy]

Correct -- A drop in viewers and ratings probably not much, but a drop in advertising revenue, definitely.
Dish pays AMC for the number of subscribers in the package that AMC is in, since AMC is in the base package, AMC is losing 14 million subscribers, whether those 14 million actually watched the channel or not, that is 14 million fewer subscribers that AMC can pitch to their advertisers. So it is going to hurt AMC much more than it is going to hurt Dish.

AMC is not in the base package.

 

[Mojo Jojo]

AMC is not in the base package.

AMC is in the Welcome Pack ($14.99), Dish Latino Plus ($37.99), Dish Latino Dos ($44.99), Dish Latino Max ($57.99), America's Top 200 ($59.99), America's Top 250 ($69.99), and America's "Everything" Pak ($104.99).

 

[Tampa8]

That's actually a good point. I have been saying AMC has more to lose than Dish because AMC will lose viewers, while Dish will in all probability not lose many subscribers. But if that's all that watched those top shows for everyone on all systems, AMC will not lose that many viewers on Dish. But that doesn't help AMC's cause. It provides Little solace that they had so few who were watching even their very few watched programs to begin with as you point out, now will have even fewer. Still don't see how Dish really loses much in this when you point that out. Just to repeat, I don't think it's good for either to have Dish not renew, but I'm not seeing how it really makes a big dent in Dish overall.

 

[JeremyL]

AMC is in about 97 million homes. They will lose 14 million. A 14% reduction in their viewership will be a huge hit. Between the immediate loss of subscription revenue, and assuming a 14% loss of ad revenue flows through fairly quickly, AMC wil get hurt by this much more than Dish in the near term.

Dish will lose some subs, if every single Dish subscriber that watched the Walking Dead finale dropped Dish it would be about 1.4 million subs (14% of 10.5 million viewers, assuming the worst case and unrealistic for Dish scenario of only one viewer per household). It's probably more like 700K subs assuming 2 viewers per HH. It won't be anywhere near that though, I would be surprised if 10% of AMC viewers actually switch, even if it's 20% it is a much smaller part of Dish than it is AMC.

My gut feeling is that Dish can ride this out a lot longer than AMC, and is willing to.

Actually, the only person this really hurts is the subscriber who watches AMC programming on Dish.

 

[GaryPen]

AMC is in about 97 million homes. They will lose 14 million. A 14% reduction in their viewership will be a huge hit. Between the immediate loss of subscription revenue, and assuming a 14% loss of ad revenue flows through fairly quickly, AMC wil get hurt by this much more than Dish in the near term.

Dish will lose some subs, if every single Dish subscriber that watched the Walking Dead finale dropped Dish it would be about 1.4 million subs (14% of 10.5 million viewers, assuming the worst case and unrealistic for Dish scenario of only one viewer per household). It's probably more like 700K subs assuming 2 viewers per HH. It won't be anywhere near that though, I would be surprised if 10% of AMC viewers actually switch, even if it's 20% it is a much smaller part of Dish than it is AMC.

My gut feeling is that Dish can ride this out a lot longer than AMC, and is willing to.

A. AMC is not in 14 million Dish homes, as AMC is not included in every package. Family Pack, AT120/AT120+, and International Base do not get AMC. Since Dish's two major selling points are Low-Priced Packages and International Programming, one would have to assume that subscribers to those packages make up a very large part of Dish's subscriber base.

B. If 700K subs dropped Dish due to the AMC debacle, that would mean lost revenue of $40million per month, probably more. (700k x $60 AT200 = $42m. Don't forget DVR fees, Add'l receiver fees, Whole home, Protection Plan, Premiums, etc.) I would say that the shareholders might be somewhat perturbed by a quarterly reduction of $120m in revenue, and annually close to a HALF-BILLION dollars. I'm just sayin'.

 

[GaryPen]

Actually, the only person this really hurts is the subscriber who watches AMC programming on Dish.

Not the only person. But, it is the person who is hurt the most by this.

 

[whatchel1]

Correct -- A drop in viewers and ratings probably not much, but a drop in advertising revenue, definitely.
Dish pays AMC for the number of subscribers in the package that AMC is in, since AMC is in the base package, AMC is losing 14 million subscribers, whether those 14 million actually watched the channel or not, that is 14 million fewer subscribers that AMC can pitch to their advertisers. So it is going to hurt AMC much more than it is going to hurt Dish.

Thanks that is exactly how the rates are set. It's the possible not the actual number that counts. The actual number is never know until after it has shown. It used to be about a month afterward by now is know w/in days thanks to the electronic age. I was both a member of the broadcast industry and for a while was part of the Neilsen panel. So have seen it from both sides.

 

[JM42]

A. AMC is not in 14 million Dish homes, as AMC is not included in every package. Family Pack, AT120/AT120+, and International Base do not get AMC. Since Dish's two major selling points are Low-Priced Packages and International Programming, one would have to assume that subscribers to those packages make up a very large part of Dish's subscriber base.

B. If 700K subs dropped Dish due to the AMC debacle, that would mean lost revenue of $40million per month, probably more. (700k x $60 AT200 = $42m. Don't forget DVR fees, Add'l receiver fees, Whole home, Protection Plan, Premiums, etc.) I would say that the shareholders might be somewhat perturbed by a quarterly reduction of $120m in revenue, and annually close to a HALF-BILLION dollars. I'm just sayin'.

Even if you take it down to 9 or 10 miilion it's still a harder hit to AMC than Dish.

Dish would not lose 700K subs, at most 20% of that max, probably more like 5% of it. Even less than that considering it's not in all the packages. Shareholders may not like it, but the only shareholder that matters is Charlie.

 

[Teehar]

Who stands to lose more Dish or AMC.I would say AMC however,Dish stands to lose as well.Two losers does not make a winner.

It's gonna cost Dish in lost subs.I'm sure there will be many that don't cancel but will call in to complain and get free premiums or credits off their bill or both.It will also make some possible new subs decide to go with a provider that has AMC.So imo it behooves both to get this resolved!

 

[GaryPen]

Even if you take it down to 9 or 10 miilion it's still a harder hit to AMC than Dish.

Dish would not lose 700K subs, at most 20% of that max, probably more like 5% of it. Even less than that considering it's not in all the packages. Shareholders may not like it, but the only shareholder that matters is Charlie.

Do you honestly think Dish will lose only 35,000 subs over this? Will will just have to agree to disagree...BIG TIME. It will easily be in the 6 digits. Of course, we won't know until they release subscription figures during the next two earnings reports.

But, you are right about the shareholders. I forgot that Charlie's class of shares gives him something like 75% controlling vote.

 

[GaryPen]

Who stands to lose more Dish or AMC.I would say AMC however,Dish stands to lose as well.Two losers does not make a winner.

It's gonna cost Dish in lost subs.I'm sure there will be many that don't cancel but will call in to complain and get free premiums or credits off their bill or both.It will also make some possible new subs decide to go with a provider that has AMC.So imo opinion it behooves both to get this resolved!

Exactly, even if it does hurt AMC more, it will still hurt Dish enough to try and negotiate in good faith to resolve this.

Unfortunately, this particular carriage dispute does not seem to be based purely on business nor purely on carriage of these channels. Dish's actions during this particular dispute are different than they have been for other disputes. Plus, it doesn't seem that AMC is asking for extreme increases, or Dish would have pointed that out, as they have in past disputes. (AMC is certainly not asking for the .75c that many are quoting in these threads. That was merely a hypothetical valuation that AMC's CEO specifically said they would not be getting any time soon.)

 

[mike123abc]

It would be very interesting to see if AMC releases how many households are lost. That way we can tell about how many of Dish subscribers subscribe to AT200 or AT250.

 

[JM42]

Do you honestly think Dish will lose only 35,000 subs over this? Will will just have to agree to disagree...BIG TIME. It will easily be in the 6 digits. Of course, we won't know until they release subscription figures during the next two earnings reports

I think if you convert Dish's share of the highest rated shows into households then 5% to 10% of that are likely to switch and not much more. I think there is likely to be more impact in new subs.

 

[Laddyboy]

AMC is in the Welcome Pack ($14.99), Dish Latino Plus ($37.99), Dish Latino Dos ($44.99), Dish Latino Max ($57.99), America's Top 200 ($59.99), America's Top 250 ($69.99), and America's "Everything" Pak ($104.99).

And that leaves out AT120 and 120+ which is not a small number of subs. I don't remember it being in any of the Dish America packages either.

 

[empiretc]

they should just put AMC in at120

 

[whitewolf8214]

they should just put AMC in at120

+1