Dish Antenna DIY question

[mojoshtudd]

Total newbie to DIY-ing antennas so apologies in advance for any stupid questions.

Got a call from Homeowners’ Association that I can’t leave my dish directly attached to the railings on my 2nd floor patio. I need to refit it into a free standing tripod. DishNetwork will charge me 90 bucks for labor and 50 bucks for the tripod.

Given the cost, I am thinking of doing it myself. One cheap option is to get a galvanized fencepost from Home Depot, setting it in a bucket of concrete and attaching the antenna to it. If I do this, what are the things I need to look out for. Looking at the settings on the dish, I see that the elevation is set at 82 degrees and skew at 54 degrees. The dish faces a south-east direction.


So if I were to pull it down from its current position and fix it on a free standing pole/tripod, should it be ok to keep the elevation and skew angles the same?




Any tips will be very helpful. I am not sure if I am making a simple matter too complicated

 

[Smith P.]

Yes. Just fine tune it using your receiver setup dish menu.

 

[Jared Twomey]

yeah, as long as you get the pole set perfectly plumb then the settings on the dish will be fairly close to right...

 

[boba]

If you use a tripod you will need some method of anchoring it or it will blow over.

 

[mojoshtudd]

Great, so now I have managed to take it off the railings and have set it on a umbrella stand (basically galvanized pole on a cement base). Next step is getting it to aim right. Right now the directivity is messed up. In the earlier installation, the antenna was at an angle to the ground (between horizontal and vertical). Now, because of the umbrella stand, it is vertical to the ground... so I guess the original skew and elevation angles will no longer be valid.

I couldn't find an "aim your antennna guide" anywhere. Still googling. If any of you could point me to a relevant article that will be great.

Edit: found this http://www.dishnetwork.com/downloads/pdf/technology/522/Chapter4.pdf

 

[boba]

Great, so now I have managed to take it off the railings and have set it on a umbrella stand (basically galvanized pole on a cement base). Next step is getting it to aim right. Right now the directivity is messed up. In the earlier installation, the antenna was at an angle to the ground (between horizontal and vertical). Now, because of the umbrella stand, it is vertical to the ground... so I guess the original skew and elevation angles will no longer be valid.

I couldn't find an "aim your antennna guide" anywhere. Still googling. If any of you could point me to a relevant article that will be great.

Edit: found this http://www.dishnetwork.com/downloads/pdf/technology/522/Chapter4.pdf

If you are under DHA 18 lease you have the DHPP it will cost you $29.99 for DISH to do a service call 800-333-3474.

 

[mojoshtudd]

Hey Boba, I didnt know that. I did take the 18 month commitment but didnt know DISH would do this for $29. Anyway, just as a fun project, I wanna see how far I can go myself before asking them to do it for me

I am attaching a pic of the current status. It is on a second floor balcony facing south east, open skies etc. The thing that is bothering me is that the manual (page 120 in the link above) says the top part of the mast should be perfectly vertical. In my current configuration, the bottom part is the one that is perfectly vertical and thus it is not possible for the top part to be vertical as well.

One option I guess is to buy another metal pole, fix it onto the umbrella holder and then attach the mast and dish to this pole such that the top part is vertical etc. Is there any other way? Is it worth trial-and-error-ing my way through the different elevation and skew angles using the current config?

Attaching a pic to explain Thanks again for your patience and help. Apart from saving $30, it'd be great if I can do this whole re-install myself

 

[ThomasRz]

I think they're blowing smoke. If you have exclusive control over the 2nd floor patio (called a "balcony" where I come from), you are free to attach the dish to the railing unless it will permanently damage it or cause a threat to the structural integrity of the building (or some part thereof). Nothing is going to be as stable as direct attachment. I have had dishes set in cement in large buckets get blown over. I haven't lost an LNBF yet but it does require repair and reaiming. Tripods are useless in most areas unless you get the kind that uses 6-9 cinder blocks as ballast and even then I have seen dishes skitter across a patio. Don't underestimate the power of wind on a sail (aka a satellite dish).

Total newbie to DIY-ing antennas so apologies in advance for any stupid questions.

Got a call from Homeowners’ Association that I can’t leave my dish directly attached to the railings on my 2nd floor patio. I need to refit it into a free standing tripod. DishNetwork will charge me 90 bucks for labor and 50 bucks for the tripod.

Given the cost, I am thinking of doing it myself. One cheap option is to get a galvanized fencepost from Home Depot, setting it in a bucket of concrete and attaching the antenna to it. If I do this, what are the things I need to look out for. Looking at the settings on the dish, I see that the elevation is set at 82 degrees and skew at 54 degrees. The dish faces a south-east direction.


So if I were to pull it down from its current position and fix it on a free standing pole/tripod, should it be ok to keep the elevation and skew angles the same?




Any tips will be very helpful. I am not sure if I am making a simple matter too complicated

 

[MyDogHasFleas]

Got a call from Homeowners’ Association that I can’t leave my dish directly attached to the railings on my 2nd floor patio.

see here: http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

I don't think this is a valid restriction, but read this through and decide for yourself.

 

[mojoshtudd]

Unfortunately in my case the following applies:

Q: Does the rule apply to condominiums or apartment buildings if the antenna is installed so that it hangs over or protrudes beyond the balcony railing or patio wall?
A: No. The rule does not prohibit restrictions on antennas installed beyond the balcony or patio of a condominium or apartment unit if such installation is in, on, or over a common area. An antenna that extends out beyond the balcony or patio is usually considered to be in a common area that is not within the scope of the rule. Therefore, the rule does not apply to a condominium or rental apartment unit unless the antenna is installed wholly within the exclusive use area, such as the balcony or patio.



The previous installation was such that the antenna was protruding outwards from the balcony.

 

[SmityWhity]

The reason they had you remove it from the railing may not be because it extended into a common area (space above ground); it may have been because you don't own the railing, they do - just like the rest of the outside walls, roof, etc....

In fact, since it is beyond the outside walls, you probably don't own the balcony either; but you have an exclusive right-of-way, which will allow you to set an antenna on the balcony. But then you can not drill holes in the outside walls to get the signal in.

Unless you are (really) prohibited from mounting it on the railing.... What about mounting it on the inside of the railing so that it does not go into the common area? Here's a picture of a SuperDish 121 with a DPP44 switch that I have mounted on the inside of a railing similar to yours.

Back to your creation....

- You do not need to mount the dish on the mast that it came with.
- You can put a 1 5/8" pipe into the cement.
- Flatten the bottom of the pipe, or put a bolt threw it, so that the pipe will not turn in the cement.
- Hopefully the balcony is not on a slope. If so, then pour the cement and level the pipe, while the cement is curing on the balcony.
- You will probably need some sand bags to keep it from moving in light winds.
- Assuming your balcony extends outwards on both sides, maybe you could run a couple of landscaping logs from one side to the other and just set them between the railings to help stop the dish mount creation from moving.

Maybe try a low-profile mount that will reduce the wind area.

Here are some more pictures - of a 3 legged, and a 4 legged mount.
I think the additional pictures came from a thread on this site, but I don't really remember, but am sure someone may recognize it and be able to furnish a thread to it.

EDIT: Maybe you could make a low-profile mount and mount it permanently on a table next to the railing.

 

[SatAdam]

I think his sunbrella mount is a good idea, he just needs a straight pipe..... It's the same as a chain link fence post, hardware store, $4. Cut yourself off about a 1.5' piece and do the same thing you have there. Leave the skew and elevation alone and rotate until you get the best signal.

Fill the thing with water like it's supposed to and perhaps sit it on a rubber mat so it won't slide.

I'm gonna snitch this idea for my portable mount instead of my inverted dish (when it rains, it collects in the dish and kills the signal, and when camping, it only gets used if it rains!)

 

[Anole]

dead easy

The dish cannot look through your balcony railing.
It must look over the handrail.

Get the fencepost (or conduit - see your local Home store)
You need about 5 feet length.
I think I bought a 10 foot piece, and cut it in half.
One half I put into a 5 gallon bucket of cement as described above.
Worked fine.
The other half I gave to a buddy who put his into an umbrella stand similar to yours.

You might invest in one of the $10-20 antenna alignment meters - I find it makes for quick work of pointing the antenna.
But, if you have the TV right there within view, put the Dish receiver on the tune-up screen and watch/listen as you align the dish.

I don't foresee any problems.
It's easy enough, that if you were local, I'd just come over and do it for a doughnut.
...even a plain one...

 

[mojoshtudd]

Thanks everybody again. I am leaning towards getting an additional pole, attaching it to the umbrella stand... that way all I need to do is make sure that the top part of the mast is vertical and the same elevation/pitch angles should do the job for me.

The cement base feels heavy enough that I think it will not move around much... I live in San Diego so not too many storms here.

I will keep you guys updated. This has been a great learning experience and thanks much to each of you

 

[SmityWhity]

Yea, I was thinking about the sunbrella/umbrella stand being too low and blocking too much of the signal, but then thought maybe for his location he was getting his signal from high in the sky.

He has vines on the patio and leaves on the trees.

I think maybe the sunbrella/umbrella on a table if he needs more height.

 

[mojoshtudd]

It's easy enough, that if you were local, I'd just come over and do it for a doughnut.
...even a plain one...

Haha... the locals here are asking for upwards of $60 just to tune. I'd buy you lunch AND dinner if you would do this for me

 

[SmityWhity]

It's really simple, even a blind person could do this if using a level with sound.

Just make sure the mast is plumb, by checking it in more than 2 directions.

Use your current settings first to find either 110 or 119. Block one of the LNBF so that you can make sure you get the correct sat on the correct LNBF. You don't want to pickup Sat 119 on the 110 LNBF or vice versa.

If you find it, fine tune the Elevation and Azimuth. Then remove the block (paper, aluminum foil, etc...) and check for the other bird. You should NOT have to adjust the Skew.

If you don't find it. Look up the correct Skew and Elevation, and change if necessary. Then, as above, look for the correct Sat on correct LNBF by adjusting only the Azimuth and Elevation.

Here's the rocket science to this:
- Plumb Mast
- Make adjustments using 1/16" or less movements.
- The receiver takes 8 to 10 seconds to recognize a change in signal before displaying it on the TV.
- Have patience with the above.

Good Luck

 

[Anole]

Haha... the locals here are asking for upwards of $60 just to tune.
I'd buy you lunch AND dinner if you would do this for me

Long Beach to San Diego for a lunch and dinner?
Almost tempting.
Do it yourself, and then you'll be an expert, too.
Everything you ever wanted to know, has been posted above.

 

[sunelec]

When I used to live in an apartment I couldn't use lag screws or any fastener that penetrated structure. However I could use u-bolts and that sort of thing. I ended up making a flat metal plate 1/4 thick with drilled holes to match the mounting base of the dish arm. Then I used four 3/8 x 7 in. bolts , lock washers and nuts to attach the arm to a 5 in. sq. post on my patio. The dish mounting arm base went on the south side of the post and the backplate went on the opposide side of the post with the 4 bolts fastened in between to secure the base. Another rule was that the dish could not project out into the common area and I was able to conform to this also.

 

[gearheadchnc]

what is your zipe code and I assuming your are shooting 110 and 119 per your picture a bucket filled with concrete and the pole being plumb would be best just check the top of the pole at 90 degree angles for plumb?