Dish and DirecTV once again in talks despite antitrust.

[SamCdbs]

If they merged, the dynamics of local transmission negotiations changes. Today, the broadcasters play Dish off against Direct with customers switching after blackouts.

The dynamics of retransmission have already changed. They include many of the shows on the network's antecedent streaming services, and at least NBC and CBS include the entire local channel. I also get somebody else's Fox channel on the Fox app, which is free, I really don't know why, don't think I'm supposed to.

Considering that the networks themselves own the local channels in the big cities, and considering how much money they make in retrans, I have never understood this.

I do wonder how many in rural areas subscribe.

I google’d how many Rural Households in the United States, average number was 20 million,

i I live in a rural area,

And that is the problem with statistics and google. There is no real definition of "rural".

The Census Bureau uses this system of "metropolitan areas" which is based on county lines, which is both grossly over and under inclusive at the same time. It includes counties that might be suburbs on one edge, but most definitely farmland on the other, (i.e. Clairmont County, OH or any similar midwestern suburban place) and it excludes many places that are developed and settled which no one would think of as "rural" (i.e. many retirement communities, etc.)

Others use "not incorporated", which means I, who live in a county outside of the town, am "rural", which I am not. By that definition, BTW, Arlington, VA is "rural".

Rural, much like Justice Stewart's definition of pornography (I cannot define it, but I know what it is when I see it), is something that is hard to define. But most of places like Appalachia, the Ozarks, and simply all that flat farmland and certainly most of the MTZ, are "rural" in a way that some place in central Florida is not, and always will be.

These people, remember, was the core target audience of DBS in the first place, 30 years ago. Call me jaded, but I don't think the government gives a darn about those people and the idea that will ever have good internet is not real. They never had good TV before the BUD, and nobody in power cared at all.

 

[Bruce]

There is no real definition of "rural".

And that is the problem, is it enough subscribers in rural areas ( the ones who get nothing, broadband, antenna, anything) to support a merged Satellite Company, but also enough to support new equipment or building/launching new Satellites.

Especially those in those areas who do not make as much money as those in more urban areas, will they even be able to afford Sat TV., if they cannot afford it, then that is even less of a customer base to attract subs to a merged company.

 

[BarnRat]

I presume such a merger would necessitate running both technologies in parallel for awhile. Then what?

I'm also curious about the answer to TheKrell's question: Then what? Since it's been stated here that the two systems are incompatible, what happens after merger?

 

[ekilgus]

I'm also curious about the answer to TheKrell's question: Then what? Since it's been stated here that the two systems are incompatible, what happens after merger?

Perhaps something similar to the Sirius/XM satellite radio merger. Two incompatible technologies necessitating running in parallel for a while. but they managed to eventually retire one technology seamlessly.

 

[BarnRat]

Perhaps something similar to the Sirius/XM satellite radio merger. Two incompatible technologies necessitating running in parallel for a while. but they managed to eventually retire one technology seamlessly.

I'm not familiar with how SiriusXM works. Was there customer hardware involved?

 

[syphix]

I still have an active SIRIUS radio in my car. What technology did they retire?


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[ekilgus]

I'm not familiar with how SiriusXM works. Was there customer hardware involved?

At the time both Sirius and XM had their own radio technology that was incompatible. If you had an XM radio you couldn't receive Sirius signals, and Sirius radios couldn't receive XM. I don't think it was a big deal for them going forward to send their signal both ways so both radios would function. Dish and Direct are different animals and it won't be that easy. Their dishes and their LNB's are probably incompatible and they're obviously aimed differently, so just changing the receiver won't be enough, and there will certainly be other issues that an installer would know about. They'll likely be forced to run parallel for a pretty long time.

 

[ekilgus]

I still have an active SIRIUS radio in my car. What technology did they retire?


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While XM was the larger of the two satellite radio services, it was Sirius that actually bought out XM.

 

[NYDutch]

While XM was the larger of the two satellite radio services, it was Sirius that actually bought out XM.

My car and motorhome both have XM only receivers. It seems to me, mainly all the new merged company has done is coordinate programming so it's the same on both systems.

 

[charlesrshell]

My car and motorhome both have XM only receivers. It seems to me, mainly all the new merged company has done is coordinate programming so it's the same on both systems.

It sure makes it nicer now days that new cars have both satellite radio companies combined. When we went car shopping back in 2007 we had to narrow down to new car selection that had Sirius radio. Wife is an cronic Howard Stern fan who was only on Sirius radio back then. Yep happy wife, happy life.

 

[SamCdbs]

Neither XM nor Sirius was "retired". The new radios simply receive both types of signals. Pre-merger Sirius radios still get only Sirius signals, and pre-merger XM radios still get only XM signals.

But this has no application to DBS TV. The satellites are in different locations. The signals are different. The only way to "retire" one would be to replace all its customers' boxes and dishes with the other.

That is not what this is about. For all the dismissal of "fly over country" the rural, and truth be told, a lot of suburban, market is real, is going to exist for a long time, and need DBS to have TV. This is about Cheap Charlie trying to leverage the AT&T over-bid into a monopoly over that, hugely profitable business, which will be around for decades to come.

 

[ekilgus]

I hope Charlie still runs the show!!

I seriously doubt Charlie would accept any other arrangement. He runs the show or there's no merger.

 

[Bruce]

This is about Cheap Charlie

Cheap Charlie’s Dish Network‘s loss of subscribers is less then DirecTV, right now, Dish loses about 800,000 a year, DirecTV 2 million a year, it is expected that DirecTV losses in 2023 will be about 3-3.5 million because of Sunday Ticket going to YT.

So based on the math, Dish Network should have more subscribers by the end of 2024.

rough math
Dish Network has, roughly, 7 Million right now
-1.6 million for 2023 and 2024
that leaves 5.4 million
DirecTV Satellite has, roughly, under 10 million ( do not ask me how I know that, involves my new employment which I started 2 weeks ago)
if 3 million leave in 2023
and the usual loss in 2024 of 2 million
that leaves 5 Million.

The math is reason why Dish should not merge with DirecTV and shows that it is about 3 years from being unprofitable.

If Dish waits it out, should be able to pick up DirecTV for a incredibly inexpensive price.

Side note, DirecTV Stream only has a million subscribers and Uverse still has about a little over 2 million.

Sling has over 2 million which shows Cheap Charlie with another win since it is a million more then Stream.

trying to leverage the AT&T over-bid into a monopoly over that, hugely profitable business,

Considering DirecTV is now valued at $15 Billion and AT&T paid $67 Billion for it, I would not be talking profits.

which will be around for decades to come.

DirecTV better hurry up and start building Satellites then and finding some customers.

 

[NYDutch]

Neither XM nor Sirius was "retired". The new radios simply receive both types of signals. Pre-merger Sirius radios still get only Sirius signals, and pre-merger XM radios still get only XM signals.

But this has no application to DBS TV. The satellites are in different locations. The signals are different. The only way to "retire" one would be to replace all its customers' boxes and dishes with the other.

That is not what this is about. For all the dismissal of "fly over country" the rural, and truth be told, a lot of suburban, market is real, is going to exist for a long time, and need DBS to have TV. This is about Cheap Charlie trying to leverage the AT&T over-bid into a monopoly over that, hugely profitable business, which will be around for decades to come.

Combining the two companies and retaining delivery as two separate systems could operate very much like the SXM merger. Over time bring the programming packages into line with each other, and eventually bring the back end operations under one "roof". Administration functions, billing, customer and technical support could all be combined to cut down on overhead and real estate. New hardware could be developed ala SXM that works with either format if there's enough need for it. Otherwise, hardware choice could be a selling point for moving customers towards the preferred system.

 

[MikeD-C05]

I had satellite radio since the early 2000s and first it was a small xm radio that plugged into my car. Then it was XM car radio built in. Then SXM radio built in. When I picked my last car in 2019 it had no built in satellite radio. But I was able to stream the SXM on my cell phone while I charge it in my car. So I get the same sound but on my phone through my car speakers and it is way cheaper than a physical sat radio. The more things change the more they stay the same.

 

[Radioguy41]

I don't see where antitrust applies in this case. The "service" (receiving TV content) is available via multiple avenues so that's not it. True they both deliver via satellite but that is methodology not service so that doesn't apply. Cable companies all across the country have exclusive rights to string wires in a specific town or city and antitrust has never been applied in that case because content is available via other methods (antennas, etc). Think of it this way, there are many trucking companies that make deliveries, some use Fords, some Chevys, some Volvos, etc. If the only two companies using Volvos merge is that subject to antitrust? So, antitrust concerns? When everything above is combined with the alternative that DTV goes belly up anyway I'm not seeing a concern.

 

[Cold Irons]

I don't know if it is a monopoly or not, but it is not true that "The "service" (receiving TV content) is available via multiple avenues.." for lots of people. If you don't have the option of cable and also are not served by any other broadband (a situation many folks are in) then the only option is Cable. OTA may be an option, but even if reception is available, it doesn't provide a replacement for cable/sat/streaming.

And you don't have to live in the boondocks for this to happen; my home from 1983-2016 did not have the option of cable or broadband until 2014, and I lived right in between Washington DC & Richmond VA. All it takes is the county government allowing the Cable Co to not wire the whole county.

 

[NYDutch]

I don't know if it is a monopoly or not, but it is not true that "The "service" (receiving TV content) is available via multiple avenues.." for lots of people. If you don't have the option of cable and also are not served by any other broadband (a situation many folks are in) then the only option is Cable. OTA may be an option, but even if reception is available, it doesn't provide a replacement for cable/sat/streaming.

And you don't have to live in the boondocks for this to happen; my home from 1983-2016 did not have the option of cable or broadband until 2014, and I lived right in between Washington DC & Richmond VA. All it takes is the county government allowing the Cable Co to not wire the whole county.

How many areas in the US are still not served by Starlink?

 

[John2021]

How many areas in the US are still not served by Starlink?

and amazon's starting there internet service soon. i heard upto gig speeds!!! we shall see!!! i know there's 3 different dish sizes for the different speed tiers.

 

[NYDutch]

and amazon's starting there internet service soon. i heard upto gig speeds!!! we shall see!!! i know there's 3 different dish sizes for the different speed tiers.

And to answer my own question, "None". There are areas that are wait listed due to subscriber count limits, but there are ways around that by getting an RV account for a few more dollars a month.