Disappointed new subscriber – Poor SD quality

[EAmin]

I recently switched out Digital Cable through Charter for Direct. I purchased an LG LSS-3200A and RCA triple LNB dish to run to my Mitsubishi WS-65712 (65"). As many have mentioned, I’m getting also getting a poor SD picture. It looks grainy. I went to satellite to get a better picture than the DTV Charter picture. So far I am very disappointed with the quality. BTW, I am running HD which looks good but doesn’t seem to be as good as the Charter feed. However, my concern is with the SD quality. It’s really driving me nuts.

Currently, I’m running a Component video connection to the TV as I don’t have a DVI input. Because I’m running HD using that same receiver, it formats the picture to 1080i. I’ve been reading some of the posts recommending S-Video and some Composite for SD viewing. I will try this, but what else can I look at?

1. Is it because my TV is not using a DVI connection? My Mitsu is the model prior to WS-65813 and is supposed to be a good TV.

2. Is it the dish --- should I have bought a better dish?

3. It doesn’t appear to be the choice in Sat Receivers as I’m reading some good reviews on the 3200a. Additionally, I’m running the receiver through a Monster Power line conditioner (5100s) which should help it even more.

4. Also from what I can see, there’s nothing really blocking the signal (trees, mountains in the immediate vicinity, buildings, etc.).

I live in Riverside CA for any local members that might know more about the issues in my area.

Thanks much!

 

[dulzen]

try hitting putting your tv in 4:3 mode, cos on your 1080, your tv is probably zooming in and streching your picture to fill screen. when u put your tv in 4:3 u will see black bars on the side, (or u need to sit fat away from your tv so u don't notice pixels.) lol

 

[LOBO2999]

I have the same Tv , Hook up the S Video for SD channels it helps a lot and view HD channels through Component.

 

[Lem52]

I think the Directv SD picture will just have to grow on you. With a 65 inch screen and thats what I have too, the SD pictures do not look good no matter what connection I use. I don't get a grainy picture but they all look sort of blury due to high compression. HD looks good though, because thats what my TV is made for anyway. I have Charter digital cable here, and it beats Directv and looks better on the big screen than Direct. I only got Directv for the HD channels anyway since Charter offers none here.

Lem52

 

[slacker9876]

My receiver is also hooked up via component video on an HTL-HD (same as the 3200a). My receiver is set to 1080i and automatically changes from 16:9 to 4:3 based upon the programs format. Some of my channels also look grainy, however, I attribute this to the up conversion to 1080i.

Even at 1080i it is not HD, but the variance in color saturation between S-Video and Component is substantial. I would say that DirecTV's PQ has had too much variance as of late but worse than cable?

I would say something is wrong with your installation. I say this only because of elementary math. Digital cable is not digital, only PPV & premium is. Satellite has 400+ lines of resolution on every channel, digital cable is only 225 - 245. But on the same note you know what you are seeing ...

I am curious what you other rooms look like do you have other TV's? How do they look?

 

[okaydave]

I would say something is wrong with your installation. I say this only because of elementary math. Digital cable is not digital, only PPV & premium is. Satellite has 400+ lines of resolution on every channel, digital cable is only 225 - 245. But on the same note you know what you are seeing ...

QUOTE]

I am having Directv installed on Friday with a HDTivo. I have a Sammy 56" DLP currently hooked up to Time Warner Cable. I am hoping my SD channels will be better that TWC. Right now my analog channels look bad, my digital channels look OK, my HBO premium channels look good and my HD channels look great. What can i expect my Directv channles to look like? Hopefully at least they will look as good as my current HBOs. Any insight would be appreciated!

 

[ScottChez]

Everyone has this issue, it is normal.


When you switch to any NEW provider you MUST TWEAK your TV.

DBS is so much more better quality you have to adjust.

goto the other AVS forums or the SPOT forums to find out how to tweak your TV,

or just do it by eye balling it.

After doing my TV, it looks DVD quality.

 

[slacker9876]

I am having Directv installed on Friday with a HDTivo. I have a Sammy 56" DLP currently hooked up to Time Warner Cable. I am hoping my SD channels will be better that TWC. Right now my analog channels look bad, my digital channels look OK, my HBO premium channels look good and my HD channels look great. What can i expect my Directv channles to look like? Hopefully at least they will look as good as my current HBOs. Any insight would be appreciated!

Your SD should be a dramatic improvement, similar to moving from VHS up to DVD. Your Premiums should look the same, digital cable is also 400 lines of resolution and HBO & whatnot are digital.

Your HD for now will probably look downgraded, I hate to say that but it is true for the time being. It is because DirecTV is down converting and over-compressing their HD signals as I am sure you have read here. On a bright note, you wont pay a cent for the HD package for 6 months. 6 months from now, when they SpaceWay birds launch your DirecTV HD will likely be better than anything you have seen to date and should be comparable with a strong OTA HDTV signal.

My neighbor just got D* installed yesterday and is very happy with the overall improvement from Comcast on all 3 of his TV's including his 46" widescreen Sony.

You will enjoy the HD Tivo over any HD DVR cable has too, with dual SAT and dual OTA tuners it is the best thing running today. Price was a lil steep for me, I actually purchased one and then had buyers remorse and took it back. Now I wonder if that was a mistake.

 

[Madtown HD Junkie]

I Had Charter in WI and it was not as good as D* (or even V*) for SD content. Use the pillar box sides for the sd. What someone said about the resolution is true. Sat is all Digital where charter is not, even when they say it is. Play with the tv, you will notice the difference when set correctly.

gl

 

[Mike Greer]

My receiver is also hooked up via component video on an HTL-HD (same as the 3200a). My receiver is set to 1080i and automatically changes from 16:9 to 4:3 based upon the programs format. Some of my channels also look grainy, however, I attribute this to the up conversion to 1080i.

Even at 1080i it is not HD, but the variance in color saturation between S-Video and Component is substantial. I would say that DirecTV's PQ has had too much variance as of late but worse than cable?

I would say something is wrong with your installation. I say this only because of elementary math. Digital cable is not digital, only PPV & premium is. Satellite has 400+ lines of resolution on every channel, digital cable is only 225 - 245. But on the same note you know what you are seeing ...

I am curious what you other rooms look like do you have other TV's? How do they look?

Oh no! Not the 400+ lines of resolution on every channel again!

DirecTV/Dish Network/Voom/Digital Cable have never really had 400+ lines... They all use way to much compression to get even close to ACTUAL 400 lines.

There is no way for even the best HDTV to make over-compressed bad digital look good. You could play with the contrast/brightness/sharpness to try and hide the garbage but you can never get rid of it.

 

[Sean Mota]

SD compression is real and nobody (E*, D*, V* or cable) will ever give you DVD quality of SD channels on a big screen. Now if you have a 30" screen it all looks good because it hides the compression artifacts like "halo" in the lettering and the fast video artifacts as well.

100% digital quality or DVD like quality on SD channel is just a marketing scheme that DBS and Cable companies use to make you believe that this is what you are getting on your big HDTV. Some connections and some tweaking can alleviate the problem but it will never get rid of it. As you have learned. Either get used to it and watch HD or watch SD on a smaller TV.

 

[slacker9876]

Oh no! Not the 400+ lines of resolution on every channel again!

DirecTV/Dish Network/Voom/Digital Cable have never really had 400+ lines... They all use way to much compression to get even close to ACTUAL 400 lines.

There is no way for even the best HDTV to make over-compressed bad digital look good. You could play with the contrast/brightness/sharpness to try and hide the garbage but you can never get rid of it.

Last time I checked I had won this argument with evidence straight from DirecTV unless you have something new, this has not changed.

Either way, we all know compressed or not satellite TV looks far better than cable TV, even if any said company is only running 300 lines ... it still looks better than 225, in fact since we know cable companies compress too maybe we should drop their count to about 160 ... sounds about right doesn't it?

 

[slacker9876]

SD compression is real and nobody (E*, D*, V* or cable) will ever give you DVD quality of SD channels on a big screen. Now if you have a 30" screen it all looks good because it hides the compression artifacts like "halo" in the lettering and the fast video artifacts as well.

100% digital quality or DVD like quality on SD channel is just a marketing scheme that DBS and Cable companies use to make you believe that this is what you are getting on your big HDTV. Some connections and some tweaking can alleviate the problem but it will never get rid of it. As you have learned. Either get used to it and watch HD or watch SD on a smaller TV.

I have found that watching SD programming in it's intended format of 4:3 greatly reduces the amount of artifacts, as I stated earlier in the post. Also DVD is 480-525 lines ... this makes it better than any TV medium in that alone, with bitrates in the 8-13Mbps range at that

 

[Sean Mota]

I have found that watching SD programming in it's intended format of 4:3 greatly reduces the amount of artifacts, as I stated earlier in the post. Also DVD is 480-525 lines ... this makes it better than any TV medium in that alone, with bitrates in the 8-13Mbps range at that

I agree with you that 4:3 is optimal. Yet, the artifacts are clearly visible even in 4:3 format! This is because the channels are not given enough bandwith or bitrates (mbps). This is why those commercials that claim 100% clear digital signal are wrong on any provider since none of them are doing it. When I watch SD, I watch my local over the air channels which give me a better picture than the local satellite channels in SD 4:3. I can even take that same over the air signal and zoom it or stretch it and it still looks 10 times better than the 4:3 satellite signal. LIL SD = degradation in SD Picture Quality. Before LIL SD, the SD channels looked very clear and almost as good as SD locals over the air today. Since LIL SD (in satellite), the PQ of SD channels has gone down hill without any hope in sight to ever go back the way it was;

Tweaking your TV helps but still is not even close to where it should be and I completely agree not even close to DVD quality .

 

[slacker9876]

Yes, there are artifacts, I was just saying they're reduced when not stretching the picture. Other than DTV (not D*, DTV) I have not received locals from an antenna in more than 7 years, the ones I do get (now with my HTL-HD) look crappy and full of snow.

I am not claiming to be the expert here but, doesn't a signal degrade (attenuate) the more times it is transmitted. If yes a direct-to-home signal should be better, they are just not better for me ... but again that does not mean they are not better for others.

I think the point I am trying to make is there is no ghosting or snow which we all know happens with analog OTA signals. some artifacts are still better than snow or ghosts.

Tonight I am going to add my analog channels back into my guide and compare, now i am just plain curious.

 

[Sean Mota]

slacker,

your locals are probably suffering from multicasting or your local provider not providing enough bandwith. Unfortunately, this is where a lot of stuff over the air is moving (multicasting). We the HDTV viewers with big screen will suffer the PQ degradation. Luckily where I live, I still get good SD signal over the air. The same I cannot say about PBS which is multicasting with 5 different channels. So I do not support them anymore and don't bother with them.

It is very sad that this is the way SD has gone. I think the only way to get decent quality is on BUD but I do not have the space for it. If I did, I will go for it.

 

[dcbag]

If you have not done so yet, you must turn the Sharpness way down to around 10 or so, this will make a big difference in getting rid of the grainess you are seeing.

 

[Mike Greer]

Last time I checked I had won this argument with evidence straight from DirecTV unless you have something new, this has not changed.

Either way, we all know compressed or not satellite TV looks far better than cable TV, even if any said company is only running 300 lines ... it still looks better than 225, in fact since we know cable companies compress too maybe we should drop their count to about 160 ... sounds about right doesn't it?

If you believe this.....


True Digital Quality

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To qualify ourselves as " 100% digital quality picture " and " CD quality sound " we must provide no fewer than 400 lines COMPRESSED, up to 512 lines uncompressed quality picture. D* has dropped below 400 lines 1 time in 10 years ... that was the 1st year of operation when the sat went completely down. Compression ratio does not cut down on the amount of lines PQ provided. The further data is compressed the more it tends to sque... or merge data causing pixelization. We must also continuously provide nothing less than 128 bt/ 16 ccm audio, which as well has only gone down 1 time. If for some reason the data transfer of PQ from your DTV IRD to your TV is " crappy" then I suggest you contact us , we would be more than glad to t/s or have a replacement IRD sent to you.... at the very least we would be glad to send a service call. ( as a tip, using RCA jacks, or S-vid cables really improve the pic quality )
Feel free to call, we are tole free and open 24/7 for customer service or tech support call 1-800-531-5000 and if you don't want to wait for the menus, chose option 0 then option 4.

...you are correct.

If you would like to move out into the real world with the rest of us that post is total BS. I'm saying that he was making it up - just that he believes the propaganda from DirecTV.

" 100% digital quality picture " and " CD quality sound " are just plain old marketing - they have no real meaning and thus can't be defined at 400 or 500 or 8000 lines... Those terms are 100% BS.

Hell - I'd be surprised if HDNet, HDNet Movies and Showtime HD are even 400 lines of REAL picture info. The more they compress the video the less REAL resolution there is.

Think of it like this.... I have a picture on my computer that is 300x400 pixels. If I display that picture full screen (1280x1024) on my monitor what is the resolution of the picture? Is it 300x400 or 1280x1024? Does it matter? If I count dots there is 1280 accross but if I look at picture detail there is only 300 accross. The picture is "100% Digital Quality" either way.

DirecTV maybe better or worse than his cable - some cable is better than DirecTV and other are worse - it has nothing to do with "100% Digital" or "CD quality sound".