Mark, from reading this thread if you replace the RS antenna for the winegaurd anteanna it will not work. I believe the wineguard needs either the power inserted or the diplexor to get power from the stb to the antenna. Your RS is not meeting the specification of the winegaurd. Why would you like to replace the antenna anyway? Is it not working?
Diplexor must be installed because of powered antenna? (Depends on antenna model)
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I figured I would go ahead and buy an antenna before the installation just in case the one supplied did not bring in all my locals. I am now only getting one local with the wineguard, so in a way I was right. I just wanted to have one already to install when the installer was here. But however the RS antenna does not work, so is there a way to make it work 
or will I have to buy or upgrade to a wineguard antenna?
Why is the RS antenna not working? When I hook to it the stb looses the signal completely.
or will I have to buy or upgrade to a wineguard antenna? Why is the RS antenna not working? When I hook to it the stb looses the signal completely.
Oh my gosh.... You mean the diplexer actually worked and you have a picture?smodak said:
Incredible!!! How did that "dummy" of an installer do it? :shocked
Had to to be some kind of "magic" because diplexers are supposed to fail, not work at all, because they MAY block voltage to the LNB, lower the signal strength so much that you won't receive any OTA unless you're within 7 miles, as long as it doesn't fail anyway.
Wow, keep holding your breath, because according to this forum you're DOOMED because you have a diplexer installed by a LAZY good-for-nothing installer who made a short cut; who really didn't care enough to run 2 cables and either SELL you or supply a separate power-inserter.
Those BAD installers, how dare they install something, like a diplexer that will cause you to later lose all signals, because of being lazy and cheap. Oh wait, I know, so they can get paid $20 to fix it later, after spending $10+ just to drive back to your house.. That must be the reason DIPLEXERS exist, now it's clear to me. I made so much money in my past installation career running countless service calls to replace the hundreds, if not near a thousand, diplexers I installed. Now I know why I'm so darn rich... Yeah right!Of course I only JEST here...
Can anyone tell this subject is important to understand? Others on these forums want to warn you to stay away from diplexers and installers that install them.. That's crazy and there is no absolute reason not to use them.
WARNING: If anyone getting installed in the future "forces" the installer to run separate OTA lines, then you will only "screw-up" your own installation, because some of the installers out there aren't aware the Sensar OTA REQUIRES the Winegard diplexer to be installed to power the built-in amp. If not installed, you WILL NOT HAVE OTA SIGNALS!!!!
Why is there this "chat" about not using diplexers anyway you ask?
OK, back in December, VOOM's supplier accidently sent out hundreds of the wrong diplexer type and that caused a "wild-fire" of why not to use diplexers.
smodak,
Congratulations.. You had a succesful, professional install done the way VOOM (and Wilt the VOOM God [he's one of the LEAD engineer/consultants]) intended.
Good luck VOOMING!
There's nothing wrong with your RS OTA.MarkP said:I figured I would go ahead and buy an antenna before the installation just in case the one supplied did not bring in all my locals. I am now only getting one local with the wineguard, so in a way I was right. I just wanted to have one already to install when the installer was here. But however the RS antenna does not work, so is there a way to make it work
Why is the RS antenna not working? When I hook to it the stb looses the signal completely.
It's not working because it doesn't have any amplifier in it to take the voltage coming from the Winegard diplexer, thus creating a "cross-short" of the signal.
If you suspect the RS antenna is better than the Sensar, then by all means install that. You will have to do it yourself, of course, and you will either need to install/insert a DC power blocking coupler at the Winegard diplexer ANT input; or run a separate line to your STB(s) and split the OTA signal as well, (if you have multiple STB's, this will cause a greater line loss, due to the insertion loss of a splitter); or you can use a NON-POWER passive diplexer outside instead of the Winegard.
It's your choice of course to MODIFY your system yourself, however, don't expect the installers or VOOM to do it or supply any of these other parts.
My opinion, professionally, and I do know more than the "average" bear...
If you're missing just one channel (or even a few and they're all basically coming from the general same compass heading/direction) with the Sensar/Wingard... wait until the next big software download takes place in about 1-2 weeks.
These MOTO boxes with the channel mapping have been creating MOST of everyones OTA problem. VOOM knows this and that's why they have been working and spending a fortune on this problem, it's huge and will either make or break it for them as for as OTA success.
HOLD TIGHT EVERYONE, there MAY be a silver lining in the VOOM OTA cloud soon.
When Voom upgraded my OTA antenna my installer had to switch out the diplexor outside. He installed one that only allows the power to go to the SAT since the PR 8800 doesn't require/can't use the power.
Yes, that's exactly correct.. the 8800 is a NON-AMPLIFIED antenna. You had a smart installer who knew if he kept the ChannelMaster diplexer installed it would cross-short the signal, so he used a standard, non-power passive to the ANT port diplexer.wasch_24 said:
Let me guess.... It works just fine doesn't it?
Yes it does.sat4me said:Yes, that's exactly correct.. the 8800 is a NON-AMPLIFIED antenna. You had a smart installer who knew if he kept the ChannelMaster diplexer installed it would cross-short the signal, so he used a standard, non-power passive to the ANT port diplexer.
Let me guess.... It works just fine doesn't it?
One question though... recently I lost all SAT signal. When the installer checked everything out he found that the diplexor had gotten 'fried' somehow. The input for the antenna was brown and soggy. We concluded that it may have been water penetration. It is mounted under the eve of the roof. What do you think?Hey Sat... I'll refrain from some of the mildly sarcastic crap I was going to say to you and just tell you to stuff it. Diplexers DO make a difference in signal quality. If you are in a fringe area, it can be the difference between getting and not getting a channel. You seem to assume that everyone is going to get this Sensar OTA antenna when in fact most local installers for Voom are given an antenna allowance and seem to buy whatever the heck suits their fancy. For instance, I have a Wineguard 7084P. There is absolutely nothing wrong with requesting (or even demanding) seperate runs as long as you understand the reasons behind it.
-MP
-MP
wasch_24 said:Yes it does.
??? brown and soggy??? that sounds like Crap!
Ok, enough.. Soggy would indicate moisture and yes it's possible that would cause a problem as to corrosion of the fitting/coupler. Brown doesn't sound like "fried", but corrosion of the copper and metal alloys. "Fried" would be black and would have caused some serious problems.
Your installer should be using a full weather-proofed fitting with a rubber o'ring inside the actual fitting casing that seals that connection at the coupler. Perhaps he installed a "boot" Those are ok, but moisture still can get in. Also, lets hope he didn't use "crimp-on" fittings, as they have no moisture protection at all.
I didn't climb the ladder and look at the fitting but from the ground it looks substantially bulkier than a crimp on type. Also he commented that he thought it was strange that it got moisture in it since he used weather proof fittings, whatever that means. I suspect that it just came unscrewed slightly, he used pliars to tighten this time.sat4me said:??? brown and soggy??? that sounds like Crap!
Ok, enough.. Soggy would indicate moisture and yes it's possible that would cause a problem as to corrosion of the fitting/coupler. Brown doesn't sound like "fried", but corrosion of the copper and metal alloys. "Fried" would be black and would have caused some serious problems.
Your installer should be using a full weather-proffed fitting with a rubber o'ring inside the actual fitting casing that seals that connection at the coupler. Perhaps he installed a "boot" Those are ok, but moisture still can get in. Also, lets hope he didn't use "crimp-on" fittings, as they have no moisture protection at all.
Respectfully, you are wrong, installers do not have an open book or allowance as to what antenna is used. They have to have approval from Installs Inc and VOOM. There is a specific platform they must go through to get approval and expect to get paid to upgrade the antenna. Don't tell folks they have some certain expectation to demand separate cables for the OTA. They don't, and who made you the authority anyway to even suggest that. Did VOOM give you some "crown" to wear and set that expectation? NO, then keep that opinion to your self because it's not your money and it's not in the scope of work either for the installers, per VOOM!madpoet said:
Some installers might and others will stick to the book and not run separate cables. Installs Inc/VOOM does not require the installer to provide or automatically include 2 cables in the install. I know some of you were sent your email that said different, that was then and it was misprinted, according to VOOM last month.
As far as the diplexers make a difference in signal quality; sure in some extreme cases where the OTA signal is so low anyway, any insertion loss can be a problem. If you start with crap you still have crap right? Nobody said a diplexer will IMPROVE signal, but it will not adversly affect it if the starting signal is good to begin with.
Diplexers have been around for over a decade and millions have been sold and installed and work as designed. I've had the same diplexers on my DTV system since 1995, NO PROBLEMS, so please don't tell me, mr. madpoet, that diplexers are BAD, you don't have a true understanding of signal pathways and how db insertion is calculated and what db starting and ending values have as an effect of over all signal.
Are you disputing the already successful installations using diplexers?
There are far fewer installation that diplexers MAY cause any problem.
Most of the post of diplexer issues are from what I can see is the installer who didn't know what he was doing and that feeds guy's like you to become "experts". I've been doing this for over 18 years my friend, and I've been there and done that thousands of time more than you.
I respect your opinion as to tell me to stuff it, but before you do, you have recommended others to refer to Wilt to help out or clear a question and Wilt is after all, the "VOOM God", ask him his opinion on this and tell him to stuff it too, after he confirms what I've been posting. Wilt's part of the design team that makes or consults on some of these decisions to use what parts, and how it gets installed.
How many installations have you done to make you an expert? I'm a level 3 (highest level, full commercial rated) SBCA certified installer.
Originally Posted by sat4me
WARNING: If anyone getting installed in the future "forces" the installer to run separate OTA lines, then you will only "screw-up" your own installation, because some of the installers out there aren't aware the Sensar OTA REQUIRES the Winegard diplexer to be installed to power the built-in amp. If not installed, you WILL NOT HAVE OTA SIGNALS!!!!
Why is there this "chat" about not using diplexers anyway you ask?
OK, back in December, VOOM's supplier accidently sent out hundreds of the wrong diplexer type and that caused a "wild-fire" of why not to use diplexers.
I have sceduled a service call to have the diplexer put in.
I attached an old anttena in the attic and boom got two of my stations in great. I am sure that the wingaurd with diplexer is the answer, thanks to all, will keep you posted (installer will be out Fri.)
WARNING: If anyone getting installed in the future "forces" the installer to run separate OTA lines, then you will only "screw-up" your own installation, because some of the installers out there aren't aware the Sensar OTA REQUIRES the Winegard diplexer to be installed to power the built-in amp. If not installed, you WILL NOT HAVE OTA SIGNALS!!!!
Why is there this "chat" about not using diplexers anyway you ask?
OK, back in December, VOOM's supplier accidently sent out hundreds of the wrong diplexer type and that caused a "wild-fire" of why not to use diplexers.
I have sceduled a service call to have the diplexer put in.
I attached an old anttena in the attic and boom got two of my stations in great. I am sure that the wingaurd with diplexer is the answer, thanks to all, will keep you posted (installer will be out Fri.)
I have read through this long post...twice as I was really confused about the diplexor issue. I have to admit, I have a greater understanding regarding diplexors than I did when I started reading this thread.
Message to Sat4Me, thank you for taking the time to share your experience and knowledge regarding this topic. Personally, I prefer reading the posts of individuals who possess the experience and knowledge to support their assertions and opinions.
Message to Sat4Me, thank you for taking the time to share your experience and knowledge regarding this topic. Personally, I prefer reading the posts of individuals who possess the experience and knowledge to support their assertions and opinions.
traylorc,traylorc said:
You're welcome.
I too prefer experience and true knowledge to support claims made on any public forum. I wish there were more of that instead of the "Sunday arm-chair QB's" that read one or several written statements and try to assemble some theory based on assumptions or extreme unique circumstances that usually are not based on the full facts or understanding that misguide the novice who needs or wants to know real answers or facts.
sat4me,
we really appreciate the help and time you have dedicated in sharing light into the diplexors. I am sure a lot of us appreciate the information. Thanks.
we really appreciate the help and time you have dedicated in sharing light into the diplexors. I am sure a lot of us appreciate the information. Thanks.
Sean,Sean Mota said:
Your and others positive feedback keep me doing this. I have no motive other than to help those that want to understand more about the install process and how things work. Anytime I might be able to help clear a question, just let me know.
Ilya said:
To be honest I don't blame the Sat4Me. This response is not directed at any one person.
In my book experience yields credibility, Sat4me obviously has the credentials and the experience. When you read post after post from individuals with making assertions based on limited experience and hearsay it has to be frustrating. It would be like me giving my doctor pointers on how to operate on patients based on the fact that I haven't missed an episode of ER in four years! My doctor would be confused and somewhat pissed off that someone with limited experience is making assertions or suggestions that are not accurate.
As an individual who was confused regarding this topic, I don't want to spend my time reading numerous posts that amount to simple speculation...not when we have QUALIFIED individuals willing to share their knowledge. That is not to say that any statements made by Sat4me cannot be questioned...but at the end of the day I am more interested in what he has to say because of his extensive experience.
Iyla, Sorry if you are offended. It wasn't directed to you or any one specifically. Did you read the original post that this was in reply to?Ilya said:
Did you read "madpoets" post telling me to "stuff-it'? What was that for? I don't see you posting him that wasn't nice. I really don't care that he said that, other than it shows his ignorance. I have remained polite in responses from those posters.
Am I providing any false info? Have I caused anyone on this forum to be damaged or hurt by any info I have provided? If I have, please let me know and point me to any false statements that has caused concern and I will retract from posting.
My points have been all along that what you or others are making opinions about, are perhaps not accurate and not up-to-date or correctly address the issue. Isn't that in some way why this forum exists, to provide correct/true/accurate info?
You leave the message to others that diplexers should not be installed because of...
My point to you was, the NEW OTA that is provided by VOOM and the equipment that they ship to the installers is designed first to be installed in a certain manor to make work as designed. If there are circumstances that require a different arrangement, based on that persons needs as to how it needs to be installed, then the installer within his specific scope of work is to contact VOOM for approval to go beyond.
These are installation/installer facts and you should not be given out misleading info as your opinion outside what VOOM provides or instructs it's installation group to do or provide. When you allow the "newbies" to think the installer needs to run a separate OTA line and not to accept anything else because you have 10 other people that had "issues" with a diplexer.
When you and others make statements that create expectations that aren't part of that scope of work or can't be met sometimes due to not having the equipment to meet. You are doing a disservice to the "newbies" as well as VOOM and the installers.
I'm disappointed in you as a moderator, that you feel I'm wrong here. Sean Moto believes enough to thank me as others have as well.
I will no longer cause you any further discomfort in challenging your opinions, causing you to feel that I have offended you.
sat4me...
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