Diesel Cars

[jayn_j]

Some of ther recent hybrid car threads got me thinking about the economics of diesel care threads. The manufacturers, especially the europeans have come a long way recently with turbo diesels giving reasonable performance and better fuel efficiency.

I went looking and found that neither VW nor Audi are currently marketing Turbo Diesels in this country. That pushes you up into Mercedes territory, and kind of makes this moot for me.

Still, when the TD was being sold by VW, it sold for about the same price as the gas version. So I started looking at comparative gas prices and epa numbers and got the following

Gas Jetta: 28 MPG combined
TD Jetta: 42 MPG combined
Gas here yesterday: $3.70/gal
Diesel here yesterday: $4.50/gal

Fuel cost for gas $3.70/gal / 28 MPG = $0.132/mile
Fuel cost for diesel $4.50/gal / 42 MPG = $0.107/mile

That works out to about a 20% fuel cost savings for operating a diesel. However, the reason that diesels died out in the '80s was because the higher forces added a lot of maintenance costs. They build them better now, but I really don't know how the relative costs stack up. I would think that the turbo itself would add to the maintenance cost. I also think that the diesel would require more frequent oil changes.

Road and Track has an article in the current issue. One interesting factlet was that they said the reason most companies don't offer their diesel products here is that US Diesel fuel has too much sulpher, so we would probaqbly need to increase our refinery costs to get the efficiency and that in turn would lower the cost/mile advantage of diesel.

 

[Hemi 6.1]

It costs more to buy a Diesel as well too. I could have gotten a Diesel Chevy van, But instead I went with the gas powered,
1. gas was $6000 less then the Diesel off the lot.
2. 6 quarts of oil for the gas motor, instead of 16
3. $3.58 per gallon vs $4.60 Diesel.
4. 14 MPG vs 17 for the Diesel was hardly worth the expence.

 

[JAG72]

Hemi, The European diesels are where the extra fuel economy is at. My boss has a Jetta diesel and gets about 47 MPG right now.

 

[Hemi 6.1]

Hemi, The European diesels are where the extra fuel economy is at. My boss has a Jetta diesel and gets about 47 MPG right now.

Thats cool , But how much extra is a jetta Diesel? It used to be about 2-3 thou extra.

 

[kenny911]

Diesel engines last forever though and have better resale value

 

[skitheberks]

I did have a rare 1992 VW Jetta ECO-Diesel that I bought new in early 1993. Nobody wanted it! It was sitting in the back row next to the auction specials. I paid about $11,000 for it, which was about 3 or 4K below the sticker.

I loved it! It was totaled in 1996 with 100k on it. It was a little slow to get going but you could not beat it for its hill climbing ability once you got it going. It was the best ski car that I ever owned. I think my Jetta was made in Germany and not Mexico as all of the other 1992 models were. I really do not remember.

I have been looking for a Jeep Liberty CRD (2005 / 2006) to replace my SUV. I am hoping to score a bargain now that diesel is around $4.50 a gallon around here.

 

[Hemi 6.1]

Diesel engines last forever though and have better resale value

Yea ,but its too Bad Transmissions and all the rest of the parts don't. My brother has a 1999 Ford econoline With a 7.3 L Power Stroke with 195,000 on it right now! And its on its 3rd Trans, 2nd waterpump,new injectors,fuel pump,rear leaf mounts, 2 sets of ball joints Rear main seal. and has already had its rear quarters repaired from rusting. He also has a 1999 F-250 with 175,000 with a triton Gas V10 ,Thats needed a water pump,Trans,Fuel pump. Rear fenders are rusting as well. My Point is The F-250 with its mostly same problems as the Diesel Van, didn't cost him half as much as the Diesel did, over the years to maintain with Oil Changes,and the cost of the repairs Plus again the fuel costs for Diesel back in 1999 were about $1 per gallon,Now almost $5. Gas motors this day and age last 2-300,000 miles easily if maintained properly.

 

[JAG72]

Thats cool , But how much extra is a jetta Diesel? It used to be about 2-3 thou extra.

You can say the same thing about the Hybrid cars if you are only looking at price. If you are looking at MPG then these are pretty good over the life of the car.

 

[Hemi 6.1]

You can say the same thing about the Hybrid cars if you are only looking at price. If you are looking at MPG then these are pretty good over the life of the car.

Hybrids aren't masterd. Diesel would be more reliable for sure. But there are some other Gas only cars that get 40mpg. Honda FIT

 

[JAG72]

Hybrids aren't masterd. Diesel would be more reliable for sure. But there are some other Gas only cars that get 40mpg. Honda FIT

The Honda FIT only gets 28/34 MPG according to the Honda website.

 

[Stargazer]

Are there any diesel hybrids out there? If so then that would get it from 47 mpg to maybe 60-80 mpg, right? Also diesels have more power don't they?

 

[rcdallas]

I put 400,000 on my 99 F-250 7.3 powerstroke. 265,000 on the first auto trans rebuild. Never gave me any problems. I sold it to help pay for school, the guy I sold it to is still running it. Maintenance is higher yes. Fuel economy was ok, the truck itself on the scale weighed just over 10,000 it averaged about 14-15. It held 94 gallons of fuel, when I was running it it had cost about $130 to fill the tank, today I wouldn't want to think about it. I did build my own little conversion to run waste vegetable oil in it, I had the process down to $.05 / gal minus my time. (it took alot of time)

I have an 05 excursion with the 6.0 powerstroke, currently with 87k miles, on highway I'm averaging about 22mpg. I hear the gas version of the excursion is getting around 12mpg.

Right now the average price of diesel in my area is 4.05...

I'll take a vw jetta tdi.

 

[Peter Parker]

Hybrids aren't masterd. Diesel would be more reliable for sure. But there are some other Gas only cars that get 40mpg. Honda FIT

the Fit''s gas mileage is not that high and is roughly comparable to the larger Civic. the sole advantage is the purchase price from what I can see.

 

[TRG]

I own a 2006 VW Jetta and love it! I get about 42 mpg around town and close to 50 mpg on the highway as long as I don't push it past 70 mph. Those numbers are for the manual transmission. The automatic doesn't do quite as well.

2006 was the last year VW sold a diesel in the U.S. The 1.9L didn't pass the new stricter EPA requirements. A redesigned 2.0L engine that passed the new requirements was scheduled for release in 2007. Unfortunately the factory that built the diesel engines burned to the ground. VW will be offering the Jetta and Golf/Rabbit with the diesel engine either late 2008 or early 2009.

BTW I heard there was a diesel hybrid in the works. Here is a link that talks about it.
Revealed: Volkswagen's 69.9-MPG Diesel Hybrid | Autopia from Wired.com