detroit dish installers

[rabbitt83]

acording to claude at dish store, he said that the reason that dish installers claim no line of sight, is becouse they get payed weather they do the install or not, and they can avoid anything that might be hard, now dish store will install couse claude wants the bisness,
dish store is better then dish installers

 

[webbydude]

Is there an actual question to this post?????

 

[rabbitt83]

yeah, the question is
how come dish installers can claim no line of site and get paid the same as a install,

 

[Van]

Dish netowrk inhouse installers dont get paid the same as sub contractors who are paid by the job and not the hour as inhouse techs are. Claude is partialy right but only to a small amount. Where Claude sends out his guy(s) with 3 - 4 jobs the dns offices in Wixom, Ann Arbor, Auburn Hills, Lansing, and one other location send out techs with 5 - 8 jobs so its not so much a question of getting out of having to work hard as it is not having enough grey time to put into finding a viable solution to accomplishing a hard install. I worked out of two of these offices and for every hard install a dish inhouse guy may have passed on we would get hard and easy installs that one of the local subs or retailers guys had passed on.

There's bad blood between inhouse and subs/retailers and always will be because all three sides have crappy techs and unscrupulous management willing to cut corners, lie, cheat, steal, ignore, push to hard, mislead, ect ect ect to get a job done the wrong way and not do a job at all. I have seen horrible installs done by those I worked with and by those who got paid by the job and worked out of their own vehicle. Its an old war that will always be here no matter what.

Oh and rabbit your location shows austin texas so has Claude sent someone from Detroit to your house in austin?

 

[rabbitt83]

van i was liveing in austin i moved back to oak park michigan

 

[Van]

Wow, what would bring you back to Michigan anyways? stagnant job growth, people leaving in droves, horrible air quality, I hope its worth it and good luck.

 

[rcdallas]

I'm a Detroit Dish installer, I can attest that there is definately truth to Claude's statement.

So Claude's crew installed your Dish then I take it?

I personally couldn't care if your inhouse, contractor, purple, blue, yellow, whatever....

Some tech's don't give a sh*t and go around to can jobs, others do the job whether it be rain or shine.

Keep in mind, there are some people that can't get it through their head that satellite does not work through trees, so what they do is have a tech come out, call NLOS, then keep calling back insisting that they can, they'll sign off, this and that instead of realizing that they can't have it, next thing you know there is 5 different truck rolls just wasting everyones time. I see alot of 118.7/61.5 people doing this.

Don't forget with all the new strict quality installation standards, technically the installer can't just put a dish in knowing that it'll only work short term.

 

[dishcomm]

acording to claude at dish store, he said that the reason that dish installers claim no line of sight, is becouse they get payed weather they do the install or not, and they can avoid anything that might be hard, now dish store will install couse claude wants the bisness,
dish store is better then dish installers

not trying to be a wiseass. But can you please re-write that in English..And if you have a question, please ask it..
If I get this..No, contractors do not get paid if the job is not completed..You misunderstood..I think..

 

[dishcomm]

I'm a Detroit Dish installer, I can attest that there is definately truth to Claude's statement.

So Claude's crew installed your Dish then I take it?

I personally couldn't care if your inhouse, contractor, purple, blue, yellow, whatever....

Some tech's don't give a sh*t and go around to can jobs, others do the job whether it be rain or shine.

Keep in mind, there are some people that can't get it through their head that satellite does not work through trees, so what they do is have a tech come out, call NLOS, then keep calling back insisting that they can, they'll sign off, this and that instead of realizing that they can't have it, next thing you know there is 5 different truck rolls just wasting everyones time. I see alot of 118.7/61.5 people doing this.

Don't forget with all the new strict quality installation standards, technically the installer can't just put a dish in knowing that it'll only work short term.

Run into this on occasion. The customer that refuses to accept after a lengthy explanation the a digital signal will not pass through solid objects..I don't get into pissing contests.I simply let them know that they have the right to request a second opinion. Some on very rare occasions will try to prevent me form leaving..One actually stood in my way until I installed to the dish to see for himself that it wouldn't work...Once he got in my face I told him he had three options.. One he could get out of my way. Two he could deal with the police. three he could get knocked on his wallet....He opted for get out of my way.
.I tell my sup what I saw and the attitude of the homeowner..That usually does it...
Most times the people are so nice and I really feel badly that I can't do anything for them..It's the less thsn 1% that make it horrible.

 

[Van]

I have had a few customers over the years where I was the umpteenth installer to show up only to find that they (A) lived in Sherwood forest and what sky you saw was coming through in 1 inch by 1 inch segments spaced out about 20 feet each, (B) lived behind a 12 story apartment building and were convinced that we would move the satellites so they could get service because their friend who is an engineer said so ( C ) think that the satellite signal is the same as a radio signal.

What makes the good installers look like idiots is when we roll onto a job and the customers house is buried in tree's and tell him it wont work only to have him point to a directv dish or to his neighbors house that has a tree that has enveloped the dish and he takes and shows you the signal and its getting signal strengths of %85 or better ( RCdallas ask John K about a detroit house that he rolled on with another tech about 4 years ago a few blocks north of the davison and the same east of livernois, dish was on the back first floor roof covered in tree branches full of leafes, yard hadnt seen a mower in months and there was several cars/trucks and an empty lot to the south of the house, he also replaced a bad receiver, if he thinks about it he will remember it and that the signal on the dish was about %90)

 

[Claude Greiner]

If your not in the Detroit area, we do schedule with DNSC and you get a DISH Network installer or a Sub-contractor. Don't get me wrong, they do good work but there are a few bad apples out there that simply do not know what they are doing.

As far as South East Michigan and Detroit, we use our own Technicians. The main reason for this is that we get paid more money from Dish if we perform our own install, but the other added benifit is that our technicians are paid by the Job and at most are given 2 Jobs per day. Our completion rate runs about 90% in the Detroit DMA, where as DNSC Jobs run about 80%, in addition our service call rate is much lower due to the fact my guys go the extra mile to make sure its done right the first time because they know im sending them back out to fix it if its not.

One of the main issues with DNSC is the fact that some technicians are given too much work. I find if you give a tech more than 4 Jobs per day, either they are rushing and they do not do it right the first time, or usually the last customer on the route gets bumped and has to be rescheduled.

The other issue that you can run into is a NLOS issue. You might have alot of trees, but my guys do get creative when it comes to finding a place where the Dish will work because they know if they do not get the Job in they do not get paid and sometimes if they get enough NLOS Jobs in a given week, I'll go out and do a site survey on every Job they said was no line of site, and setup a 2nd appointment with the customer and complete the install myself and make them look like a jackass back at the office.

 

[Van]

As far as South East Michigan and Detroit, we use our own Technicians. The main reason for this is that we get paid more money from Dish if we perform our own install, but the other added benifit is that our technicians are paid by the Job and at most are given 2 Jobs per day. Our completion rate runs about 90% in the Detroit DMA, where as DNSC Jobs run about 80%, in addition our service call rate is much lower due to the fact my guys go the extra mile to make sure its done right the first time because they know im sending them back out to fix it if its not.

One of the main issues with DNSC is the fact that some technicians are given too much work. I find if you give a tech more than 4 Jobs per day, either they are rushing and they do not do it right the first time, or usually the last customer on the route gets bumped and has to be rescheduled.

These are reasons why the industry needs to change, theres no reason to send out techs overloaded with work wich is what the dnsc offices in michigan do, it started getting alot worse last year when dns wixom was sending out techs from its office and the ann arbor office with 5 - 8 jobs per tech.

 

[dishcomm]

I have had a few customers over the years where I was the umpteenth installer to show up only to find that they (A) lived in Sherwood forest and what sky you saw was coming through in 1 inch by 1 inch segments spaced out about 20 feet each, (B) lived behind a 12 story apartment building and were convinced that we would move the satellites so they could get service because their friend who is an engineer said so ( C ) think that the satellite signal is the same as a radio signal.

What makes the good installers look like idiots is when we roll onto a job and the customers house is buried in tree's and tell him it wont work only to have him point to a directv dish or to his neighbors house that has a tree that has enveloped the dish and he takes and shows you the signal and its getting signal strengths of %85 or better ( RCdallas ask John K about a detroit house that he rolled on with another tech about 4 years ago a few blocks north of the davison and the same east of livernois, dish was on the back first floor roof covered in tree branches full of leafes, yard hadnt seen a mower in months and there was several cars/trucks and an empty lot to the south of the house, he also replaced a bad receiver, if he thinks about it he will remember it and that the signal on the dish was about %90)

How is that possible?..How can a digital sat signal penetrate solid objects. I'm not saying anyone is fibbing here but I am not buying it.....If I go to a job and it's in the tress, it's in the trees. I cannot afford to waste time and materials to come to a conclusion which is certainly going to be negative..
Could you imagine that this rare instance of miracle ever became public knowledge what would happen to this business?.. Every job would have to be done just to see whether or not there is any signal. Our expertise and integrity would come into question at every turn..Screw that. I would be gone...

 

[Van]

How is that possible?..How can a digital sat signal penetrate solid objects. I'm not saying anyone is fibbing here but I am not buying it.....If I go to a job and it's in the tress, it's in the trees. I cannot afford to waste time and materials to come to a conclusion which is certainly going to be negative..
Could you imagine that this rare instance of miracle ever became public knowledge what would happen to this business?.. Every job would have to be done just to see whether or not there is any signal. Our expertise and integrity would come into question at every turn..Screw that. I would be gone...

I dont know what to tell you but I have seen it twice and both times there was another tech there, the one I stated above I was the other tech there with John K. It was a D500 set back into the branches about 3ft and had %85 on the 110 and %89 on the 119. We were there to find out why one of the two receives wasnt working and when we saw where the dish was we fingered the dish location as the problem until we saw the other receiver with those signal readings.

Strang things happen, directv systems with two receivers working through splitters, a dish system where the casing has been whittled away and the center conductor's wrapped around each other and the braiding tied together and its working, dpp44 switches workinng without the power inserters, like I said strang things happen.

 

[rabbitt83]

thats amazing van

 

[585960]

The other issue that you can run into is a NLOS issue. You might have alot of trees, but my guys do get creative when it comes to finding a place where the Dish will work because they know if they do not get the Job in they do not get paid and sometimes if they get enough NLOS Jobs in a given week, I'll go out and do a site survey on every Job they said was no line of site, and setup a 2nd appointment with the customer and complete the install myself and make them look like a jackass back at the office.

Oh brother! So your the dude putting the dishes on the peaks of a roof, that a sane person wouldn't step on?

 

[Roadwarrior]

acording to claude at dish store, he said that the reason that dish installers claim no line of sight, is becouse they get payed weather they do the install or not, and they can avoid anything that might be hard, now dish store will install couse claude wants the bisness,
dish store is better then dish installers

ok, I'm pretty slow. Are you trying to imply that the entire concept of No Line of Sight is just a fabrication by lazy installers who don't want to work? I've seen retailers do some pretty whacked out crap just to get a sale, stuff that absolutely will not last the year. There are times that a guy can get lucky and thread the needle just right and get a line of sight when it appears there is none, but that's just luck. A Satellite Signal cannot pass through solid matter. Some guys are lazy, burnt out, loaded down or whatever, and they'll call no line of sight because of whatever reason, but thats not a standard in the business. I've never actually worked directly for Dish but I seriously doubt it's that common of a practice among their techs.

sheesh...generalize much?

 

[Claude Greiner]

Oh brother! So your the dude putting the dishes on the peaks of a roof, that a sane person wouldn't step on?

Not unless its absolutly necessary, but usually a pole mount or garage mount will solve the problem.

You got to look beyond the roofline of the house sometimes!

 

[585960]

Absolutely. I usually curse the subs, for dropping the dish anywhere just to get $$$. I agree, that if you really look, in most cases you'll find a LOS. And low to the ground, too!:up

 

[dishcomm]

As far as South East Michigan and Detroit, we use our own Technicians. The main reason for this is that we get paid more money from Dish if we perform our own install, but the other added benifit is that our technicians are paid by the Job and at most are given 2 Jobs per day. Our completion rate runs about 90% in the Detroit DMA, where as DNSC Jobs run about 80%, in addition our service call rate is much lower due to the fact my guys go the extra mile to make sure its done right the first time because they know im sending them back out to fix it if its not.

One of the main issues with DNSC is the fact that some technicians are given too much work. I find if you give a tech more than 4 Jobs per day, either they are rushing and they do not do it right the first time, or usually the last customer on the route gets bumped and has to be rescheduled.

These are reasons why the industry needs to change, theres no reason to send out techs overloaded with work wich is what the dnsc offices in michigan do, it started getting alot worse last year when dns wixom was sending out techs from its office and the ann arbor office with 5 - 8 jobs per tech.

overlaoding techs is mmuch more commom than we think..The other contractor do it..They also have very high turnover. They also have complaint after complaint about sloppy work, poor customer service and being in a hurry...Our company does not do this..Each tech is asked when they are interviewed how much worlk they can get done in a day...Techs that ask for more work than they can handle get their workload reduced....
This industry is going in the wrong dorection..Dish keeps pushing quality but on the other side thye push numbers..Get the new connects in no matter what.. guys get burned out and quit. Tha pay rates are stagnanyt but my costs keep going up....Both Satcos have ruined the industry by offering everything for free...Saturday I had a retail job...We charge extra for pole mounts wl fishes ,etc..Stuff we can't charge for on our DNS work..Anyway, she started bitching about having ot pay for a pole mount. I told her look, "I pay for that pole the concrete and perform the additional labor. Am i to underatnd that you beolieve I shopuld have to eat the cost and perform the extra labor fro free?..She calmed down..But this is the attitude of some customers...What is happening is that guys are either charging on the sly or they just won't do the extra work.....Anyway, at the end of the day the ciustomers are going to get what they pay for..The good techs will leave the bsuiness..E* and D* will end up with unskilled uncaring sloppy assed people doing the work...Fine..I expect to be out of this business in a year or less..