Denon owners, EQ question

[gadgtfreek]

Is the consensus to turn everything down to small and 80hrz ?

Yeah, if you have speakers in the 60-80hz range for lows, they should be small and 80. When set as large and 40 or whatever, they have full range and you can lose some low end. The way i read it, is setting them to small and 80, and the sub to 110 or 120, allows the sub to cover everything in its range, and the others cover 80 and up.

 

[gadgtfreek]

Ok, just got home and re ran setup, using better mic placement and adjusting placement of speakers, here are the before and after(db's checked with Radio Shack Analog Meter):

Before -

Front L - small - 12.3ft - 80hz - +5.0db - 78db's
Front R - small - 12.8ft - 80hz - +5.5db - 78db's
Center - small - 11.4ft - 80hz - +2.5db's - 78db's(center was adjusted ok according to meter)
Sub - yes - LFE - 12.5ft - 110hz - (-4.0db's) - 81db's (too high)


After movement:

Front L - small - 11.9ft - 80hz - +5.0db's - 79db's
Front R - small - 12.5ft - 80hz - 5.0db's - 77db's (adjusted to +5.5db's and got 79db's)
Center - small - 11.2ft - 80hz - 3.0db's - 79db's
Sub - LFE - 12.4ft - 110hz - (-3.5db's) - 81 (too loud) - adjusted to -5.0db's and got 78-79 on the meter

Will leave like this and watch for awhile, if im unhappy with the center, will raise one db. At least I know they are all equal now. Amazed once again at how accurate the foot measurements are.

 

[gadgtfreek]

Well, the resident jerk in the 1909 thread has now concluded I have completely ruined my audyssey setup by comparing levels with a meter that is "not as good as the denon mic" and adjusting the sub down 1.5db's and upping the front right .5 db's.

These guys kill me with thinking that Audyssey is fire and forget and you never question it, what sheep. If you use the same meter to measure all the equipment(regardless of whether its 4db's off or not), the results can be compared still. Youd think I used the meter to set the db's, sheesh.

 

[NightRyder]

Well, the resident jerk in the 1909 thread has now concluded I have completely ruined my audyssey setup by comparing levels with a meter that is "not as good as the denon mic" and adjusting the sub down 1.5db's and upping the front right .5 db's.

These guys kill me with thinking that Audyssey is fire and forget and you never question it, what sheep. If you use the same meter to measure all the equipment(regardless of whether its 4db's off or not), the results can be compared still. Youd think I used the meter to set the db's, sheesh.

Exactly right! What matters is that the levels are equal, from there you can make minor adjustments until you get the best sound; the ear is always the final judge.

NightRyder

 

[gadgtfreek]

I think I may have Gregg Loewen check out my sound when he comes out next summer, will be curious to see how good Audyssey is. I just find it hard to believe that you run something and then dont question it anymore, regardless of what you hear, or a freakin meter tells you.

 

[lakebum431]

elwaylite - did you rerun Audyssey after you moved the speakers again? (I am no expert and don't pretend to be so I ask for the sharing of information not to tell you that you did something wrong). I was under the impression that you set up everything exactly how you will be listening (including crossover and volume levels on the sub) and then you run it? I have the 3808ci and it is an amazing receiver.

 

[teachsac]

Well, the resident jerk in the 1909 thread has now concluded I have completely ruined my audyssey setup by comparing levels with a meter that is "not as good as the denon mic" and adjusting the sub down 1.5db's and upping the front right .5 db's.

Which one. There's a few over there. Whatever sounds best to you go with.

S~

 

[gadgtfreek]

elwaylite - did you rerun Audyssey after you moved the speakers again? (I am no expert and don't pretend to be so I ask for the sharing of information not to tell you that you did something wrong). I was under the impression that you set up everything exactly how you will be listening (including crossover and volume levels on the sub) and then you run it? I have the 3808ci and it is an amazing receiver.

Yes. The two settings I posted above are before and after. After the inital setup, I felt the sub was too high and the center was too low. At the suggestion of the Audyssey guy in the avs thread, I made some adjustments to the speakers and then reran. I also decided to buy the RS analog spl meter, which by all avs accounts (there is a thread on them) is consistent and generally 2 db's low in readings. being that I did not use the spl meter to set the speakers to 75db's with the test tone, but only used it to check the db's between speakers with the test tone, it should work very well. Thats what those guys refuse to accept. I could see their point if I used it to set the speakers to 75db's. Its like having a tire pressure guage thats a few psi off, to compare tires that should be 30 psi against each other. You can use it to see if they are all the same psi, but you cant use it to set them at 30. All I wanted was to see each speakers output level was an equal db per the meter. What I found was they all read right at 78 (checked several times) except for the sub, which was more like 82. Thats way too high and explains why i heard it as being too loud. Since I dropped the sub down to 79 or so per the RS meter, its not annoying at all watching normal tv, when it was before hand.

Which one. There's a few over there. Whatever sounds best to you go with.

S~

I agree, but I like data to help the decision making. Its like how an ISF calibrated tv can be hard to get used to at first, regardless of how you feel about it, you know its right and you adapt to it.

Im very confident in the Audyssey as a very good setup and this Denon is the best rcvr ive ever owned, but I just dont think guys at AVS should so easily dismiss someone willing to doublecheck the work.

Anywho, it sounds good, and I love the 1909 and the Klipsch sub.

Thanks to all for the input over the last two months.

 

[lakebum431]

Oh I see. I misunderstood what you were saying.

 

[gadgtfreek]

Oh I see. I misunderstood what you were saying.

Hehe, I spent a good part of the day trying to get to the bottom of the best way to check all this out. The AVS audyssey FAQ thread is VERY helpful. I also learned today how I had my fronts screwed up in placement and why

Did you run audyssey on the 3808 and not mess with it anymore?

 

[lakebum431]

I ran it when I first got it (about a year ago) and liked the sound, then got a new sub (an SVS that is amazing) and ran it again - sounded better, then I updated the 3808 with the new feature pack for $100 (includes audyssey dynamic - among other things) and now it sounds unreal. I honestly can't imagine what I could do to make it sound better - spoken audio is clear, explosions are "explosive" and the rest is exatly where it should be. Lucky I guess.

 

[gadgtfreek]

Ill agree, I love the sound of the Denon so far. And dont get me wrong, per the meter (after I made speaker placement adjustments), the center and two fronts are on the money. I think my issue with the sub is that it may be too much for this room. At 12" and 300w's, its a lot more than Im used too, might have gotten the 10", but I really wanted the lows of the 12" though. I think its dialed in nicely now. I feel about Denon about how I feel about Panny plasmas and Panny bluray players, Im sold. You can tell they put a lot of time into their equipment.

 

[lakebum431]

Ill agree, I love the sound of the Denon so far. And dont get me wrong, per the meter (after I made speaker placement adjustments), the center and two fronts are on the money. I think my issue with the sub is that it may be too much for this room. At 12" and 300w's, its a lot more than Im used too, might have gotten the 10", but I really wanted the lows of the 12" though. I think its dialed in nicely now. I feel about Denon about how I feel about Panny plasmas and Panny bluray players, Im sold. You can tell they put a lot of time into their equipment.

I agree with you, it is really worth getting higer end equipment. However I'm sold on the Pioneer plasmas instead I do love my Pioneer 6020.

 

[gadgtfreek]

No doubt on Pio, just a little more than I was willing to spend . What sucks, is I bought my panny for $2600, now its about $1600. Ah, the joys of buying early

 

[HD MM]

Yeah, if you have speakers in the 60-80hz range for lows, they should be small and 80. When set as large and 40 or whatever, they have full range and you can lose some low end. The way i read it, is setting them to small and 80, and the sub to 110 or 120, allows the sub to cover everything in its range, and the others cover 80 and up.

Elwaylite,

I have Polk Satellite Speakers. Here are the low/high range.

Lower -3dB Limit 45Hz
Upper -3dB Limit 20kHz

You think 80hz be safe for these?

 

[gadgtfreek]

with a lower 3db limit at 45, you could run them at 60hz if you wanted. I think the SOP is to round up from the -3db limit and round down from the upper. What they dont want you setting that speaker at is full or 40hz.

Mine are close to that range, and when the rcvr's set them up as large and full range, im def missing the sub 50hz lows that the sub should be taking over. Basically when you set small and a freq number, anything below 60 or 80 is handled by the sub. Most say 80 for the speakers and 120 for the sub is a great point. I have my sub at 110 because it doesnt quite make 120 and Klipsch says 110 on their site for rcvr settings.

 

[jayn_j]

Well, the resident jerk in the 1909 thread has now concluded I have completely ruined my audyssey setup by comparing levels with a meter that is "not as good as the denon mic" and adjusting the sub down 1.5db's and upping the front right .5 db's. ... sheesh.

Well, I suppose you have now lost him as someone who comes over and watches movies at your place

 

[gadgtfreek]

Well, I suppose you have now lost him as someone who comes over and watches movies at your place

Yeah, my 1909 is now a POS. :haha

 

[gadgtfreek]

This rcvr is amazing. Tried out my new settings today on The Hulk 2008 BR. Man is the bass awesome, but the biggest part I noticed if more detail in the highs, I actually heard things I had not picked up while watching with the Onkyo. The Denon definitely sets itself up very well, must be due to the better version of Audyssey as compared to what my 605 had.

 

[QCK]

I noticed the more detailed highs as well. I agree it probably is due to the Audyssey EQ calibration. :up