defrag DISH EHD

[TheKrell]

I think the problem is that no one, sadly, makes a really good HDD today.

I would guess that the march to SSDs is eroding the market for HDDs. Do you concur? HDD's continue to occupy the gargantuan disk space, especially where speed is not of the essence, such as for archival purposes.

What is the highest capacity of a single spindle these days?

 

[BlackstoneStarShip]

What is the highest capacity of a single spindle these days?

My WD EHD is 3TB, but DISH will only format it to 2TB... LINUX sez it has 1.9TB available on it ;-)

 

[TheKrell]

My WD EHD is 3TB, but DISH will only format it to 2TB... LINUX sez it has 1.9TB available on it ;-)

I was just speaking rhetorically. According to Wikipedia:

As of August 2020, the largest hard drive is 20 TB (while SSDs can be much bigger at 100 TB, mainstream consumer SSDs cap at 8 TB). Smaller, 2.5-inch drives, are available at up to 2TB for laptops, and 5TB as external drives.

Obviously that's out of date, so they might even be higher than that by now. So, SSD's can go to just about any size, but the cost is prohibitive for such capacities. This leaves room in the market for HDD's.

 

[arlo]

Correct me if I'm wrong. I know little about commercial (DN, DTV) receivers. The internal 'video' specific drives are designed for sequential writes, from WD and Seagate's data sheets.
Also the drives internal to them only spin when a task is called (rec, pb). "PUIS"....power up in standby. The drives set idle but active and only spin when you ask them to.
So yanking the juice or a power flicker, or simply shutting down the receiver is less likely to corrupt them. Unlike Windows or Linux OS. And motors in them literally last forever.
Seeing as how an external HDD won't have the puis bit set in firmware, I can see how corruption or just normal drive house keeping can bork them.
I don't even know if the bit could be set in an external usb hdd and work properly. I just know that when I get donor dvr's from people, to use the internal hdd in a pc. I need to use HDAT2 bootable to disable puis.
SSD's are certainly not a good idea for external drives for a DVR. But the firmware does have trim functions that don't rely on external software to....'defrag'...them. Or like in Windows, the many command line repair functions like C:\ chkdsk /r.
Not being able to use Linux housekeeping functions on a drive formatted in these receivers is interesting at least.
And with the track record of some of the drive models I've run across. Very large capacity ones seems like an invite to disaster As for not seeing the entire capacity of them in a receiver. Is partitioning them not available?

 

[BlackstoneStarShip]

So, can I even use an SSD as my VIP211 USB EHD? Would it be a better replacement and more reliable than the HDD? Whatever size it is, it will only have 2TB on it that DISH will recognize...

 

[TheKrell]

So, can I even use an SSD as my VIP211 USB EHD? Would it be a better replacement and more reliable than the HDD? Whatever size it is, it will only have 2TB on it that DISH will recognize...

Yes, they will work. But don't waste your money! The speed of SSD's is lost on the Hoppers and the VIP receivers before them. If you are really concerned, you could buy a hardware raid1 (mirroring) EHD. One member here (navychop) swears by his.

 

[navychop]

SSDs wear out faster than HDDs.

 

[arlo]

Then again us old hardcore spinning platter guys might not be up to speed.

Best NAS hard drives 2024: Reliable storage for Synology, QNAP, ASUSTOR, and TerraMaster

The best NAS drives for Synology and other NAS solutions compared.

www.windowscentral.com

 

[BlackstoneStarShip]

Noticing that the only HD Satellite recordings triggering the 're-boots' seem to be only those recorded recently (say, for the last month)...
...older HD Satellite recordings (say, from months ago) play w/no problem - no pixelating, no re-booting, etc.
BTW - When the affected HD Satellite recordings trip, after re-boot the resume location is where it was when the HD Satellite recording was when it was previously started, not where the HD Satellite recording was when it was playing when the re-boot happens... wild?

 

[TheKrell]

Noticing that the only HD Satellite recordings triggering the 're-boots' seem to be only those recorded recently (say, for the last month)...

Well... I still have no real handle on that issue. The receiver itself can be that screwy. But if your EHD is or is going bad in thus-far un-recorded places, then you might expect this to happen to new recordings. Dish might have changed their encryption algorithm for all we know. That could explain it too, although I don't see anybody else on SG reporting this issue. So I think it has got to be either your receiver or EHD.

 

[bookworm370]

So, can I even use an SSD as my VIP211 USB EHD? Would it be a better replacement and more reliable than the HDD? Whatever size it is, it will only have 2TB on it that DISH will recognize...

Oh no! Don't use an SSD, SSD's look like HDD but are managed by an internal controller to simulate a hard drive. Dish does not support the TRIM command.

In a normal hard drive, when a file is erased or a block is reused the operating system keeps track of which blocks are in use and which are available. But in an SSD, when a file is erased, the controller has no idea that it was erased because all the operating system does is rewrite the file allocation table.

The TRIM command is used to tell the SSD controller that 'these specific blocks that I've erased are really free so go ahead and free them up'. If the SSD does not get a TRIM command those blocks are forever lost. Eventually the SSD will fill up, even though the operating system thinks there are free block, and it will fail.

Also, the constant write/read/write/read cycle if you are using an SSD for the live video feature will kill an SSD in record time.

There is a complete thread on the topic here. Just look for SSD and TRIM.

Or you can google the TRIM command. Windows, Linux, OSX are current operating systems and can tell if a device is a real HD or an SSD and will issue the TRIM command accordingly. Dish supports only HD's not SSD's so the receiver operating system will not know it's an SSD and won't issue the TRIM command.

 

[navychop]

OSX is a current OS?

 

[Foxbat]

OSX is a current OS?

I know he meant to say macOS…

 

[arlo]

I think the times they are a changin'. I was of the same school until I started reading of the new tech for purpose-built ssd's used for nas. Seems like purpose built ssd are being perfected for recording/playback that was frowned upon not long ago. Great warranties from WD. Quite a few recent reviews. For me the same rule remains. Don't store in one place what you can't afford to lose. If gambling losing 4 or more TB of stuff is okay. Go for it.
In the fta receiver world we aren't locked into losing it all if we kill a sub to the big guys. It's easier than using a VCR. And drives are portable.

 

[Foxbat]

I read that Synology has a line of SSDs designed for their NAS boxes, and Seagate has the IronWolf Pro line of SSD which are rated to write their capacity in a 24 hour period for 5 years. So, not as fragile as they once were.

But, you’ll pay for that capability.

 

[arlo]

I think the times they are a changin'. I was of the same school until I started reading of the new tech for purpose-built ssd's used for nas. Seems like purpose built ssd are being perfected for recording/playback that was frowned upon not long ago. Great warranties from WD. Quite a few recent reviews. For me the same rule remains. Don't store in one place what you can't afford to lose. If gambling losing 4 or more TB of stuff is okay. Go for it.
In the fta receiver world we aren't locked into losing it all if we kill a sub to the big guys. It's easier than using a VCR. And drives are portable.

As I think about it. Traditional hdd is pretty cheap. For recording and playback you don't really need the speed that ssd does well. Sure. Spend the bucks if you need to. My pc's with ssd really woke up by adding them.
But. In Windows and other os. A hdd spins up when powered on at boot time.
DN and DTV doesn't spin up the drive until needed. Windows will spin them down to save power and mark them idle until spun up. The electronics are still awake.
So. I don't have dn. Just wondering if someone geeky enough would dive into using something like hdat2 to set the bit in an external hdd for power up in standby. And see if it actually works on a receiver plugged into a usb port.
In that state one should last a tremendous amount of time. Hmmm.

 

[bookworm370]

I read that Synology has a line of SSDs designed for their NAS boxes, and Seagate has the IronWolf Pro line of SSD which are rated to write their capacity in a 24 hour period for 5 years. So, not as fragile as they once were.

But, you’ll pay for that capability.

Yup, and I have a Synology NAS and it's great. But I've already invested in the WD Red NAS drives and still have more than 3/4 free space. Running it in their Raid 5 configuration and it's been rock solid for two years. They are great in releasing new firmware that adds features.

If I run out of space, the SSD's might be looked at, but honestly in a NAS which is limited not by HD speed but the network interface speed, unless you have 100's of people accessing it with multiple interfaces (mine can support two) SSD's would be an overkill as you'd never to able to even max out the HD Red speeds.

 

[n0qcu]

As I think about it. Traditional hdd is pretty cheap. For recording and playback you don't really need the speed that ssd does well. Sure. Spend the bucks if you need to. My pc's with ssd really woke up by adding them.
But. In Windows and other os. A hdd spins up when powered on at boot time.
DN and DTV doesn't spin up the drive until needed. Windows will spin them down to save power and mark them idle until spun up. The electronics are still awake.
So. I don't have dn. Just wondering if someone geeky enough would dive into using something like hdat2 to set the bit in an external hdd for power up in standby. And see if it actually works on a receiver plugged into a usb port.
In that state one should last a tremendous amount of time. Hmmm.

I don’t know where you’re getting your misinformation from but the drive in a DISH reciever spins continuously.

 

[rvvaquero]

DN doesn't spin up the drive until needed.

You mean, like when it's plugged in? My HD spins continuously.

 

[arlo]

I don’t know where you’re getting your misinformation from but the drive in a DISH reciever spins continuously.

My misinformation comes from DVR's given to me from people who were bilked into telemarketing strategies that turned into bait and switch and a Tony Soprano 'eff you, pay me' after the new wears off and the bills go up.
Yeah!
So in fact tearing them down to salvage drives in them plugged into a PC delivers what the web is flooded with. "Why doesn't the hard drive I took out of my DN DVR work in my pc?" Google that one.
Power Up In Standby, using HDAT2 bootable media to flip the bit, and enable the drive to spin up when powered on.
Been there, done that. Still am. It's good stuff. Stuff that in a pipe and bernz-o-matic it.