D* DMA's are crazy

[charper1]

Well my point (at the end) was if your service address zip shows "not served" in the database, how are you getting any locals at all? Why not just change your service address closer to STL? I read the comments regarding the mapping issue and another question came up; why are there multiple maps issued (I know they get updated)?

Why in the hell are we still allowing the NAB and Nielsen to bully the FCC? Take all the wasted energy used to bash DBS and direct it where it really belongs to make a real change for the best!

We all would rather the FCC just finally put an end to the illegal monopoly of the stone age affiliates and DMA system. All the networks need to do 'AT MOST' is an east, central, mountain, west and pacific network feeds beamed to all cable and DBS providers and just allow the end users to CHOOSE and to PAY for whatever they want; one feed, some or all. True freedom of choice and open market.

Then just do away with the out of touch affiliates and allow your local news, weather and sports to go back to radio and newspapers where they belong. If someone LOCALLY wants to provide a public OTA versions of local news, let them do it on their own dime and without network backing and coat-tail riding. Then maybe the entire country could get the programming they so desire without all the red tape and double talk we have now thanks to the NAB and the affiliates and their fight at any cost to protect local monopolized revenue.

 

[jhamps10]

may I ask you where you put in my zip, on the d* website?

 

[charper1]

Sorry for the slow reply, but the board was down and I went to dinner.

DirecTV Locals Lookup

And when I go to AntennaWeb it shows mostly Terre Haute, Evansville, and a few other IL stations, but not STL.

 

[Greg Bimson]

We all would rather the FCC just finally put an end to the illegal monopoly of the stone age affiliates and DMA system. All the networks need to do 'AT MOST' is an east, central, mountain, west and pacific network feeds beamed to all cable and DBS providers and just allow the end users to CHOOSE and to PAY for whatever they want; one feed, some or all. True freedom of choice and open market.

I won't get into a big fight over this, but realize the same "freedom of choice" is what drives business. It allows two parties to come to an agreement. And the networks, which own many affiliates, decided they don't need to compete with themselves in markets where they own the affiliates. Which means any other station would want the exact same terms: no competition from the same network programming.

Well my point (at the end) was if your service address zip shows "not served" in the database, how are you getting any locals at all? Why not just change your service address closer to STL? I read the comments regarding the mapping issue and another question came up; why are there multiple maps issued (I know they get updated)?

These maps are issued yearly. The rules state the DBS companies can use the Nielsen map from the time the SHVIA was passed (the 1999-2000 season), or a successor map. DirecTV used the 1999-2000 map for their first wave of local channels. I am not sure what may have been used later, but it appears none of the original markets were updated with newer Nielsen maps.

is there a way to check to see if clay county somehow got moved out of the stupidness of nielsen, cause terre haute tv stations don't give worth crap about clay county, and st. louis actually does.

Not that I am aware. However, at the Echostar Knowledge Base, Clay County is in Terre Haute on the national map; in the local market maps, it is in St. Louis.

EDIT: I just found this. This data may be two years old. But judging how the DMA's keep changing, it is quite possible that Clay County got moved back to the Terre Haute DMA for 2005/6.

 

[rogerl]

Well my point (at the end) was if your service address zip shows "not served" in the database, how are you getting any locals at all? Why not just change your service address closer to STL? I read the comments regarding the mapping issue and another question came up; why are there multiple maps issued (I know they get updated)?

Why in the hell are we still allowing the NAB and Nielsen to bully the FCC? Take all the wasted energy used to bash DBS and direct it where it really belongs to make a real change for the best!

We all would rather the FCC just finally put an end to the illegal monopoly of the stone age affiliates and DMA system. All the networks need to do 'AT MOST' is an east, central, mountain, west and pacific network feeds beamed to all cable and DBS providers and just allow the end users to CHOOSE and to PAY for whatever they want; one feed, some or all. True freedom of choice and open market.

Then just do away with the out of touch affiliates and allow your local news, weather and sports to go back to radio and newspapers where they belong. If someone LOCALLY wants to provide a public OTA versions of local news, let them do it on their own dime and without network backing and coat-tail riding. Then maybe the entire country could get the programming they so desire without all the red tape and double talk we have now thanks to the NAB and the affiliates and their fight at any cost to protect local monopolized revenue.

A couple of things to think about. First, the network's/local station's business model is based on being able to generate revenue based on the advertising that they sell. They must have market exclusive situations in place for this to work. The local ad sales support the local and network shows. The business model of the cable and satellite networks does not include this element (with the exception of some local cable ads). In many cases the cable and satellite networks are left running shows or series that have either already had their run on over-the-air networks or at movie theatres.

If you were to change the business model of a local station or network to a "pay-per-view" type situation as you described, they would go broke. Nobody would be able to afford to pay what it would take to equal what they get from their advertisers. Remembeer that advertisers put millions into positioning themselves as to where they want to be. For example, G4 advertisers are paying for the "quality and interests" of viewers, not the total number. If I want to target that market, I am willing to pay extra for it. This applies to local news as well. If people had to pay for those shows, the station would go broke.

The local ecomomy could also suffer by loosing an outlet for local business to advertise and connect with their customers. If you are employed by anyone who uses local advertising, you understand how important it is to the local ecomony. And as much as I love my TIVO, it is really bad for my local economy when I skip all the local ads that paid for the show that I'm watching.

If everyone was willing to pay about $20 per month for each channel they recieve, we could do away with all the advertising stuff. Then...what channels do you think would survive??? Would you subscribe to CNN only when they are covering a hurricane? Would they even be able to survive during the "down time" between disasters?

It's not the NAB and the FCC, it's Wall Street, the copyright holders and Hollywood. Without Nielson, the FCC, and the NAB, there would not be much to watch on many of your DTV channels.

 

[colofan]

Let see Hollywood is doing better because they have DVD sales and not in the theater sales anymore. Also the amount of viewers is going down each year because mass market doesn't work. I am male why would I want to see ad's for female only ad's?

The business model that you have described above works well in the 50's and 60's but most of my news I read off the internet since I can get all I want from there why do I care about local broadcasting especially to deliver no local programming. I am interested in the locally produced programs but not from a national broadcast.

As a matter of fact the network model is really ripe for technology to replace national ad's. What you want is a method to insert local content into national programming. A fine example of what can be done is the weather channel with the local forecast inserted. Not reason that ad's couldn't be done this way and yet you have a national feed where to don't need 1000's of stations replaying exactly the same program.

 

[Hogarth]

Let see Hollywood is doing better because they have DVD sales and not in the theater sales anymore. Also the amount of viewers is going down each year because mass market doesn't work. I am male why would I want to see ad's for female only ad's?

Sooner or later, we're going to get you to buy those Tampons.
Admit it.

 

[jhamps10]

I won't get into a big fight over this, but realize the same "freedom of choice" is what drives business. It allows two parties to come to an agreement. And the networks, which own many affiliates, decided they don't need to compete with themselves in markets where they own the affiliates. Which means any other station would want the exact same terms: no competition from the same network programming.These maps are issued yearly. The rules state the DBS companies can use the Nielsen map from the time the SHVIA was passed (the 1999-2000 season), or a successor map. DirecTV used the 1999-2000 map for their first wave of local channels. I am not sure what may have been used later, but it appears none of the original markets were updated with newer Nielsen maps.Not that I am aware. However, at the Echostar Knowledge Base, Clay County is in Terre Haute on the national map; in the local market maps, it is in St. Louis.

EDIT: I just found this. This data may be two years old. But judging how the DMA's keep changing, it is quite possible that Clay County got moved back to the Terre Haute DMA for 2005/6.

Yes, it is possible that we got moved back, and on EKB the national map is from 2002-2003 DMA info. the local maps are as far as I know the current maps. So and this site could have the wrong information on it too.

 

[TNGTony]

Check out http://ekb.dbstalk.com/TVMarkets

Clay County is still in the St. Louis market in '05/'06

[edit] Clay County was in the Terre Haute market four years ago.[/edit]

See ya
Tony

 

[rogerl]

The business model that you have described above works well in the 50's and 60's but most of my news I read off the internet since I can get all I want from there why do I care about local broadcasting especially to deliver no local programming. I am interested in the locally produced programs but not from a national broadcast.

You may be correct in theory, but maybe still slightly ahead of your time. Local stations ad sales still pay for supporting local community events, the ability to provide local emergency information, and even to publish content on their local web sites. Radio, TV and even newspaper web sites do not yet survive on their own. Their content is mainly a result of the site owner being a local broadcaster or newspaper first.

Another great example was with the recent hurricanes along the golf coast. Not only did local radio and TV save many lives by warning people in advance of the storms and helping to evacuate areas, but were critical in assisting those afterwards in knowing where to go for help and when it may be safe to return. If people had to get that info on a "pay-per-view" basis, there would have been many more lives lost, or the local news sources would have already gone out of business, so you couldn't pay for it even if you wanted to.

 

[charper1]

You may be correct in theory, but maybe still slightly ahead of your time. Local stations ad sales still pay for supporting local community events, the ability to provide local emergency information, and even to publish content on their local web sites. Radio, TV and even newspaper web sites do not yet survive on their own. Their content is mainly a result of the site owner being a local broadcaster or newspaper first.

Another great example was with the recent hurricanes along the golf coast. Not only did local radio and TV save many lives by warning people in advance of the storms and helping to evacuate areas, but were critical in assisting those afterwards in knowing where to go for help and when it may be safe to return. If people had to get that info on a "pay-per-view" basis, there would have been many more lives lost, or the local news sources would have already gone out of business, so you couldn't pay for it even if you wanted to.

RIGHT, "local TV" for local events; thats what we have been saying. None of this stuff is NETWORK related. Just let the locals make their own money via local businesses for their own local needs and revenue. Let them produce their own content. Let the networks deal direct with DBS and cable and open it up for all as it should be. The affiliate system is near death as it should be. If they can only raise enough money to support local news and special coverage for quakes and storms, then so be it, OR stop blacking out sports and fighting the rest of us that want to time shift and see other time zones.

Sorry for the rambling a bit but I am typing fast so I can make the Sat launch in 4 mins.

 

[jhamps10]

that's something I would like to see. Local stations around me have gotten serious rap this month for showing nearly non-stop coverage of the torando outbreaks here in my area. but then those who rely on an antenna would not be able to see their favorite shows on the networks.

 

[jhamps10]

hey I got a e-mail response from d* today. They basically blew me off and said that we are in Terre Haute and there was nothing I could do about it. Is there anything I can do to show them of their mistake of having us put in the TH market? I doubt it but who knows.