Current rec for business desktop?

[navychop]

I'm replacing my business desktop, probably this week. I've been looking at Dell and Newegg (mostly HP).

I might revert to building it myself, as I have in the past, but I thought I'd look at off the shelf, because time is so short with our business relocation.

Desired specs:
-Vista Business (32 not 64 due to accounting s/w conflicts)
-RAID min 160GB presumably SATA
-4 or 8 GB RAM
-CD/DVD burner
-second optical reader (could be later install, I have many laying around)
-later to add BD burner
-Memory card reader (SD, SDHC, compact flash, smart media, etc)
-Front & rear USB
-Video card able to support 2 monitors (VGA & HDMI). Not for games but must support video & extensive graphics
-built in ATSC TV tuner highly desirable, could be added later (prev: ATI HDTV Wonder)
-Must come with optical media for reinstall
-10/100/1000 networking

Have I overlooked anything?

I will probably later buy separately a 24"-26" widescreen monitor (spreadsheets).

I wonder about the Core 2 Duo, or springing for the Quad. Or an AMD quad. The machine I later build at home will be more powerful, to process HD camcorder video, but I am unlikely to do this at work. Unless somebody higher up sees value in it. Then I'd have to consider the i7.

Dell seems the closest to letting you design and build it yourself, but they're not quite as flexible as I'd like. And you pay for the name.

What source for PCs do you guys like to use? BTW, forget BB & MicroCenter, they're not even close to selling a business system like this. Guy actually tried to tell me Vista Home was just fine for domain based networks. But he'd never heard of "peer to peer" or "client - server."

Any recommendations or comments would be most welcome.

 

[Pepper]

With a 32 bit operating system, > 4GB isn't going to do you any good.

I recommend a Core 2 duo or quad, with 8GB running Windows 7 x64. Install the virtual XP and run your legacy software on that.

No, you can't buy a system with Win7 yet, but you're very close to being able to buy something with Vista now, and Win7 free later, and you can run the release candidate till then.

 

[navychop]

Like the ideas, but can't go with W7 for maybe a year. Accounting s/w is stated Not Compatible. Took them about a year to get it running under Vista. It seems the s/w checks the operating system, and if it's not on the "approved" list, refuses to run. Not sure I could chance the virtual XP route.

I'm being forced to move, after having dithered and delayed on both machines for months. Too many problems with both machines.

 

[Pepper]

That's exactly what the virtual XP is for. Whatever is running there sees Windows XP and has no knowledge that there's anything else there.

 

[TheForce]

If your software is a 16 bit only application, yes you will likely have trouble with the 64 bit OS. I don't know this for fact as I haven't had tome to test my beta windows 7 64 bit install yet but I'd be willing to bet the windows XP virtual mode is more for GUI than underlying OS compatibility. If your software appears like an older dos look and feel, then I'd bet you'll have trouble. I can't imagine you have any hardware calls going on that makes the OS and the accounting software incompatibility. If so, then it would never have made the jump to vista or XP. I had video editing software that couldn't make the jump from windows 98 to XP or 2000 for that very reason.

The main advantage of the 64 bit OS is to run applications needing more than 3.2 Gb Ram. If you get a dual core 2 duo chip and MB it will be compatible for either. The main advantage of a quad core over dual core and the 8Gb ram is how many high end applications you need to run simultaneously. If you will have applications that take advantage of the 64 bit OS then so much the better. Personally, I'd be putting in TWO CPU boxes with a CPU switch (KVM) then for simplicity sake go with one larger monitor rather than two smaller monitors, use virtual desktop modes. I've used both and the single monitor is far superior and more efficient than the dual monitor.

If I were you I'd be looking strictly at my NEEDS for business and buy a premade package that satisfies those needs. Then you mentioned future BD burner. That is a clue you are looking at some form of media editing and Full HD production. Here is where the quad core with 8GB AND a Raid HD system will come in. BluRay production is a whole other ball game for hardware requirements. You can't just stick a BD burner in a small fry machine and expect it to work without trouble or take forever to do a project. Playing BluRay media is one thing but creating BluRay is quite another. Even my high end video editing systems fell flat when I tried BluRay burning. I went to a much higher system to handle the load. Frustration is too much of a time waster so build the right tool for the job and you won't be sorry. Likewise, don't waste money on a high end machine to run old legacy software. Sometimes you just may be better off running 2 CPU's to one workstation. Heck I have 4 plus a laptop here in my office.

 

[navychop]

I believe I've read about some problems with virtual XP.

The accounting s/w, which shall remain nameless since they have an NDA about discussing certain things, is not at all DOS-like. It is current, and uses the Pervasive engine.

In fact, it never did make the jump to XP, nor to Vista. New releases came out. This happens about once a year. They have a separate peer-to-peer version from the client-server, and different system requirements. And seem very picky during installation about the server and the workstations.

The 2 monitor idea is for short term purposes, will definitely go to single monitor in the future.

Generally, most of the time I am running the accounting system, internet, Word, Excel and maybe Paint Shop Pro (printing job site pictures, little editing), along with Outlook. These may all be open, and maybe 1 or 2 other small apps (security & access system, etc). NOT what I would consider a heavy load or taxing. Shuttling data across the net is the biggest thing.

I was considering a BD burner more for local backup purposes than for editing (currently use ext USB HDD, but most data resides on server w/removable HDD backup). I plan to do my editing at home. However, maybe I'd better pop up and have a chat with the boss.

- - - -

Ok, boss says he figures 2 years before we will actively use HD camcorders and need to transcribe. So that translates to lower end PC now, buy again in 2 years with more bang for the buck.


SO- any preferred places to buy?

 

[TheForce]

Navychop-

While I have great respect for the new hard drive HD video camcorders, (I have an HDR SR12), there is a trade off vs. tape based camcorders. It is convenient to record to hard drive as you never have to carry tape and moving the AVCHD video files from the camera HD to the computer hard drive is much faster than capturing / digitizing the tape, that's where the speed ends. Now you have to work with AVCHD files and those can require special editing software, the latest stuff out as well as lots of memory, and CPU horsepower to work in real time. This is why HD editing of AVCHD is more difficult than HD MP2 file editing, which is more difficult than DV editing. This is why I suggest separating video work, especially HD video, from business worktool as the equipment is considerably more demanding.

I understand your accounting software issues. I went through it myself with some of the older software and I appreciate how difficult it is to make the switch to something more current/compatible with present day OS for whatever technical reason.

As for local backup- I would think a more economical approach would be a Raid redundant network hard drive rather than optical media, especially the pricey BD stuff.

 

[navychop]

Yes, I'm counting on a big drop in BD media prices. RAID on both my machine & server. It's saved my bacon many times - I'll never have another business PC on my desk without RAID. I just also use the external USB HDD as "belt and suspenders." One day, an internal BD burner might be better- less clutter. Probably end up with an internal removable HDD as the cheaper and faster option.

The HD camcorder I have at home uses SDHC cards. I expect the company will later buy similar.

So it now looks like we'll be buying a dedicated high end PC for the purpose, just in another 2 years.

But I need to order a new desk and PC ASAP. Hopefully my home PC will hold out a few more weeks. Hard to believe I have over 3 years on my work PC and almost 6 on the home PC. No wonder the home one is having h/w problems.

 

[mike123abc]

I believe I've read about some problems with virtual XP.

The accounting s/w, which shall remain nameless since they have an NDA about discussing certain things, is not at all DOS-like. It is current, and uses the Pervasive engine.

Sounds like ACCPAC, that is the system we use with the Pervasive engine. I finally gave up on the workstation and just went to a server version. That way only the server has to use Windows Server 2003 and everyone can run vista 64 (we go with ultimate instead of business on new computers). When people want to use the accounting software they use remote desktop and it works great.

 

[navychop]

We left ACCPAC just before Y2K. We use a client-server system with 3 heavy users, many more light users. SBS2003.

Any particular reason to spring for Ultimate, other than the encryption?

 

[gbjbany]

just one thought on quad vs duo, if you use excel 2007, and do lots of calcs, like sumproduct and such, having 4 cores significnatly decreases the throughput time to do re-calcs as it was optimized for multicore.

I just put one in and i am doing stuff way faster than i was on my dual core.

 

[mike123abc]

We left ACCPAC just before Y2K. We use a client-server system with 3 heavy users, many more light users. SBS2003.

Any particular reason to spring for Ultimate, other than the encryption?

The price difference between business and ultimate was small, we use bitlocker on a few computers, so we decided to have the option for all of them.