Court ruling today in TiVo case.

[Juan]

I read somewhere that "Judge Folsom" is retiring and that all his cases would be handled by another judge....

Texas Lawyer Blog: EDTX Chief Judge David Folsom says he

 

[jacmyoung]

IMHO the only judge who needs his accounts audited is Judge Folsom. Wasn't there something about buying a bunch of pigs in Texas to taint the jury pool?

I recall it was a dairy cow. They won't have been able to milk it were it a bunch of pigs.

 

[VortecRacer]

In a nutshell instead of really punishing Ergen, the court, afraid of a bunch of angry Dish consumers having their devices shut down, abdicated their responsibility to apply justice and merely smacked his knuckles which gives him time to get rid of the old DVR's and convert to new ones. Someone should check the judges bank accounts for DISH checks.

...or check their homes for infringing Dish DVR's. Maybe the legal and court staff doesn't want to lose their recordings.

So I haven't been following this issue until recently. I understand this back-and-forth has been going on for years. Out of curiosity - why Dish? Wouldn't any company that offers a DVR be infringing such as Cox, Comcast, Time-Warner, etc..???

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

Tivo is suing other companies too, DISH was just the first they sued. (and a bunch of companies are suing Tivo including DISH as well.)

 

[Jim5506]

ViP class receiver are not a part of this suit and when TiVo tried to slip them in, they were denied the opportunity.

IMHO, ajudication of ViP class receivers would have to be a new case.

612/622/722/722k/922 are neither covered nor in jeopardy.

This ruling looks like a hollow one for TiVo.

They ruled that the original software on the original boxes infringed and Dish has to shut them down, BUT they also ruled that the changed software MAY have corrected the problem and sent that question back down the line for a ruling.

IMHO, the affirmation part was really nothing - probably a foregone conclusion, but the remanding was a BIG win for Dish.

 

[Hall]

Tivo is suing other companies too, DISH was just the first they sued. (and a bunch of companies are suing Tivo including DISH as well.)

And for those unfamiliar with the legal system, it's called "precedent". If they win against one company, in theory it should be easier to win against others that they sue later.

 

[mike123abc]

ViP class receiver are not a part of this suit and when TiVo tried to slip them in, they were denied the opportunity.

IMHO, ajudication of ViP class receivers would have to be a new case.

612/622/722/722k/922 are neither covered nor in jeopardy.

This ruling looks like a hollow one for TiVo.

They ruled that the original software on the original boxes infringed and Dish has to shut them down, BUT they also ruled that the changed software MAY have corrected the problem and sent that question back down the line for a ruling.

IMHO, the affirmation part was really nothing - probably a foregone conclusion, but the remanding was a BIG win for Dish.

The only thing I see TiVo getting out of this ruling is another large payment from Dish. Dish will have to pay for the continued use of the infringing DVRs until they are all finally removed from service. They are racing to replace them with VIPs, but they are still racking up damages until they are all offline.

At the end TiVo gets cash and Dish ends up with all VIPs. Then TiVo will be faced pretty much with starting over and suing over VIP receivers (not to mention having to defend itself against all the other lawsuits).

The real question is will the patent continue to hold up as more and more companies attempt to defend against it by attacking its validity. The Microsoft case at the Supreme Court could have a large impact if the court decides to weaking patent protection:

Microsoft downplays impact of possible Supreme Court patent ruling - Computerworld

Under current practice, an accused infringer must show "clear and convincing evidence" that the patent is invalid to escape with a win. Microsoft has suggested that the burden of proof should be lowered to "a preponderance of the evidence."

 

[whatchel1]

The only thing I see TiVo getting out of this ruling is another large payment from Dish. Dish will have to pay for the continued use of the infringing DVRs until they are all finally removed from service. They are racing to replace them with VIPs, but they are still racking up damages until they are all offline.

At the end TiVo gets cash and Dish ends up with all VIPs. Then TiVo will be faced pretty much with starting over and suing over VIP receivers (not to mention having to defend itself against all the other lawsuits).

The real question is will the patent continue to hold up as more and more companies attempt to defend against it by attacking its validity. The Microsoft case at the Supreme Court could have a large impact if the court decides to weaking patent protection:

Microsoft downplays impact of possible Supreme Court patent ruling - Computerworld

I believe that the infringement damages are already set and there is no increase to that payment. Also with the patents in question there will be a problem for TIVO to get any further in suits unless they prove that they are valid. So if others challenge them then they could be a world of hurt $$$ wise.

 

[jacmyoung]

I believe that the infringement damages are already set and there is no increase to that payment. Also with the patents in question there will be a problem for TIVO to get any further in suits unless they prove that they are valid. So if others challenge them then they could be a world of hurt $$$ wise.

Actually the $110M damage was vacated, the en banc asked the lower court to recalculate damages covering the period BEFORE the new software was installed, I recall at that time DISH told Judge Folsom it was $16M.

The sanctions award is topped since the en banc did not instruct Judge Folsom to recalculate or calculate any additional sanctions.

 

[navychop]

Err- does that mean TiVo owes (or might owe) Dish a refund?

 

[gdarwin]

Err- does that mean TiVo owes (or might owe) Dish a refund?

I have also wondered about this...

 

[Bobby]

You don't have to pay when you are bankrupt.

 

[jacmyoung]

You don't have to pay when you are bankrupt.

The $90M is not paid yet but based on the latest CAFC note to the lower court filed yesterday, it seemed it is asking the lower court to recalculate the sanctions.

In the dissenting opinion it was pointed out TiVo incorrectly used the VIP rate to calculate sanctions, the old SD boxes should have lower rates.

 

[navychop]

Didn't Echostar/Dish actually already pay around $100M to TiVo based on some previous court ruling?

 

[Voyager6]

For the initial infringement verdict. This amount is part of the contempt ruling and was being held in escrow during the appeals process.