Is E* going to appeal this ruling, or are we customers hosed? If we're hosed, how soon until we lose the DNS'?
Court Orders Dish to Drop ALL Distant Networks
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Iceberg said:um, actually there is Syndex rules there. They're called simsubs
Also, the stations that are not owned by the Network (CBC/CTV in Thunder Bay, CTV in Kenora, CBC/CTV in Lloydminster, CBC Terrace & Prince George) Expressvu blocks all similar programming in that time zone for people in those areas. So Thunder Bay gets blacked out on CBC Ottawa, Toronto, Montreal when the same item is on. StarChoice doesn't do the local blackouts and they follow the correct simsub rules (If you are in the Grade B of a Canadian station that is showing a program at the same time as a show in the states, they simsub. Thats why Toronto has simsubs and Fort Frances, ON doesn't)
In Canada, watch a O&O affiliate. The commercials are exactly the same. On the affiliates, there are different commercials.
I thought about the sim sub after the statement. But it seems watching SC, it's nothing like it is here.
odbrv said:
Perhaps Greg can clarify further, but it is my understanding that the latest incarnation of the SHVEA pretty much sliced up the country so that everyone was a part of some DMA. Reception of OTA is irrelevant to the owned DMA. In the example odbrv gives, both Amarillo and Lubbock are available via DISH. http://ekb.dbstalk.com/TVMarkets/Maps/texas.gif
My own case is similar. I live on the northern edge of Colorado. I cannot receive much in the way of Denver stations. I can receive the Cheyenne stations clearly, and virtually all local advertising is carried on the Cheyenne stations. However SHVERA says I am in the Denver DMA and therefore eligible to receive Denver, but not Cheyenne. To add to the complication, Cheyenne was able to turn off my distant locals, even though I was unable to receive their stations over DISH.
If you want to see a strange DMA, take a look at the Denver DMA up in Wyoming. http://ekb.dbstalk.com/TVMarkets/Maps/wyoming.gif Johnston and Campbell counties are in the Denver DMA even though they are over 300 miles from the transmitters and actually split the DMAs of other, closer markets.
My hope at this point is that DISH will take this opportunity to look at the significantly viewed clause and allow subscribers to receive the near market stations that they can receive from the local cable company. IMHO this would level the playing field.
A lot of the people that are getting punished are the subscribers. Will this cause national HD networks that were announced to be launched to not get launched after all?
long_time_DNC said:
I don't think Dish can appeal this, can they ? This ruling was already an appellate court upholding a lower courts ruling. The only place they could appeal to would be the U.S. Supreme Court, which surely would not hear the case. I do not think they can appeal.
jayn_j said:
I checked with E* and if people in my area lose distants, they will be able to get Lubbock locals. The catch is they are on the 148 satellite. To get them they will need to purchase another dish, possibly another switch, and pay an installation charge. Total cost could be $400. So who did the court penalize again? It seems Dish has been given a major revenue boost and we got screwed by the court . So maybe E* isn't dumb afterall. My solution will be to forget networks. I think I will now start writing all the network sponsors and tell them they might be losing viewers and they should renegotiate their ad costs. That is just what the big networks need is more lost viewers. Have they been reading how many viewers they have already lost to non network offerings? Wow is the NAB a brilliant bunch. If I were their boss, I would be saying " You're fired " to a bunch of people.
I'm just waiting to see how long before broadcasters come after us for using antennas?
Even though sub sims are in place in Canada, as Ice was pointing out,
-you dont need to do BS waivers for US Nets on EVu/SC
-you can get HD or SD...hell on SC you can get 4 cities
Spokane & Buffalo in SD and Detroit & Seattle in HD
so there is some differences that works well for them but we are more restricted here. It does not hurt to keep emailing your local congressmen, NAB and your local affiliates demanding competition. It should be an open market. People have interest in certain parts of the country. For me, I like time shifting.
Even though sub sims are in place in Canada, as Ice was pointing out,
-you dont need to do BS waivers for US Nets on EVu/SC
-you can get HD or SD...hell on SC you can get 4 cities
Spokane & Buffalo in SD and Detroit & Seattle in HD
so there is some differences that works well for them but we are more restricted here. It does not hurt to keep emailing your local congressmen, NAB and your local affiliates demanding competition. It should be an open market. People have interest in certain parts of the country. For me, I like time shifting.
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Canadian regulations on U.S. programming are completly different from the U.S. The protections created by the U.S. laws are for the local stations. There are no local stations in Canada that broadcast pure U.S. network programming, so there are no laws for protection. I wouldn't brag to my local affiliates if I were getting S.C. to view U.S. programming.
Dish is the one being punished. There is an alternative (D*) which could negate E*'s ability to charge $400 for an add-on dish. (Although I doubt $400 is the price).
Dish is the one being punished. There is an alternative (D*) which could negate E*'s ability to charge $400 for an add-on dish. (Although I doubt $400 is the price).
Global is like Fox and CTV is like CBS, but both have some other NBC and ABC programming as well but these are there strongest.
mikew said:
As usual, you are wrong again.
Iceberg correctly says, " you obviously haven't seen Global... All of their prime time stuff is from the US."
The Canadian satellite provider Bell ExpressVu offers networks from Boston and Seattle.
The other satellite provider Star Choice offers networks from Buffalo,NY. , Detroit, Spokane and Seattle. (You can choose 1 from each time zone and change over the phone from city to city daily if required.)
Lots of people have chosen to get their locals from these cities via Canadian Satellite. During football season, there are quite a few different choices of games from all the Canadian cities available to watch from their basic package. NFL Sunday Ticket is priced low from Canada also and available from both providers.
If and when networks are gone from this country on your satellite, Canada could be an alternative. Their sports coverages are more complete also.
How???
I went to each web site and priced their packages. From what I got Dish is a bargain. Bell ExpressVU wanted $25 per month rental for what read like a 921. It was $699 buy. That makes $6 for a VIP622 look great.They do offer all east and west networks (ABC,CBS,Fox,NBC and PBS) in SD and HD. However, you could not buy them separately. You needed a package. Star Choice just sold their equipment and had only one DVR. It read like a 921 also. Star asks what Canadian Province you are ordering from. It had no USA choice. I guess I might be illegal getting it in Texas and would have to do all the install and repairs myself.Oh well, there goes the Canadian solution. I remember when I got all their stations free on C-band. Then they were the first to go digital and we lost all their stations.
Clancy said:
I went to each web site and priced their packages. From what I got Dish is a bargain. Bell ExpressVU wanted $25 per month rental for what read like a 921. It was $699 buy. That makes $6 for a VIP622 look great.They do offer all east and west networks (ABC,CBS,Fox,NBC and PBS) in SD and HD. However, you could not buy them separately. You needed a package. Star Choice just sold their equipment and had only one DVR. It read like a 921 also. Star asks what Canadian Province you are ordering from. It had no USA choice. I guess I might be illegal getting it in Texas and would have to do all the install and repairs myself.Oh well, there goes the Canadian solution. I remember when I got all their stations free on C-band. Then they were the first to go digital and we lost all their stations.
Thanks for the correction...however...I said "PURE" as in there are no ABC, CBS, Fox or NBC AFFILIATES in Canada. Yes, some broadcast their own versions, but not a PURE schedule of what's seen in the U.S.Clancy said:
Quit taking this stuff so personally. I'm not out to put mis-information on this site...
It had no USA choice. I guess I might be illegal getting it in Texas and would have to do all the install and repairs myself.Oh well, there goes the Canadian solution[/qoute]
correct. There is no US choice because they can only sell to Canadian addresses. Just like Dish/Direct can only sell to US addresses.
But there is a way around it
Just my honest opinion (Quotes are just my loosely remembered comments):
"Who watches commercials anyway?" Commercials are what it's all about. They aren't worried about who you receive program content from.
"How many really need distant locals, anyway?" Like, who cares? Those of us who really need distant locals really care.
"Dish has a problem if they don't have a way to regulate who is qualified to receive distant locals." "Cheaties" will always find a way around the rules, and Dish could never have the manpower to verify the qualifications of those who find a way to get distant locals even if they live in the middle of Manhattan. Are they going to send someone out to an address and see if you really live there?
"What is the definition of an "ineligible sub"?" Hey, you know who you are.
As one who actually qualifies for distant locals, I really resent those who have managed to receive distants just for convenience, for time shift, etc. I feel anyone should be able to receive what they want to receive, but at this time, that isn't the way it is. Consequently, those of us who need distants may be made to pay the price (loosing distants) by those who work around the rules. Thanks guys.
"Who watches commercials anyway?" Commercials are what it's all about. They aren't worried about who you receive program content from.
"How many really need distant locals, anyway?" Like, who cares? Those of us who really need distant locals really care.
"Dish has a problem if they don't have a way to regulate who is qualified to receive distant locals." "Cheaties" will always find a way around the rules, and Dish could never have the manpower to verify the qualifications of those who find a way to get distant locals even if they live in the middle of Manhattan. Are they going to send someone out to an address and see if you really live there?
"What is the definition of an "ineligible sub"?" Hey, you know who you are.
As one who actually qualifies for distant locals, I really resent those who have managed to receive distants just for convenience, for time shift, etc. I feel anyone should be able to receive what they want to receive, but at this time, that isn't the way it is. Consequently, those of us who need distants may be made to pay the price (loosing distants) by those who work around the rules. Thanks guys.
bonipie said:
well said!
Unfortunately I doubt those who have chosen to "cheat" care much about how their decisions have affected you. Go back and read all the "move" threads. All those who didn't see anything wrong with it and felt like they "deserve" it are partly responsible for this whole mess. Some people just can't get it through their collective heads or understand that just because you can do it doesn't necessarily make it right.
With that said, I will admit that I think the ruling is a load of crap and that we should get to chose who we get our locals from. 2006 is much different that 1956. More people move and live in other areas than they did when tv was starting out.
bonipie said:
Another mis-informed statement. Those who cheated to get distants have no bearing on the ruling. It was because of the qualification systems in place that EchoStar had that brought this to court. Charlie Ergan then swore in court he would fix the system and disconnect ineligible subs. He had a chance to fix his broken system six years ago and did nothing. His lawyers then went into court and angered the judge some more.
I can give you one clear cut example of how broken Dish's system was. When I lived in Las Vegas, I qualified for both CBS and Fox distants. Neither of those local stations were O & O and I lived 15 miles from the transmitter (must have been Grade A).
Please read the ruling. As much as I feel for you losing the channels, there is an alternative. If you don't wish to switch providers, then that is your choice.
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