Cord Cutting - which box? Some comparisons

[harshness]

We already know that Netflix is bleeding money on their in-house content. As their bias edges more and more towards their own content along with what they can still get their hands on, I reason that profitability will continue to taper off. Growth in subscribers doesn't always translate directly to growth in profit. We often heard stories about how there was a sweet spot for the satellite providers in terms of subscriber numbers and I think that may be true of Netflix when the network loading gets to a certain point.

I think Netflix needs to figure out how to syndicate some of their own productions.

 

[wormil]

I would like to get back on topic because I hope to be cutting the cord in a few months and I'm going to need an OTA DVR solution. The contenders right now are the Amazon Recast or the new Nvidia Shield.

 

[harshness]

I would like to get back on topic because I hope to be cutting the cord in a few months and I'm going to need an OTA DVR solution. The contenders right now are the Amazon Recast or the new Nvidia Shield.

The Recast has a few peculiar limitations (HD-lite 1440x1080i, Fire TV clients only, no file transfers off the internal drive) and the reports of late have been not entirely shiny with respect to successfully recording all chosen events. The requirement that all viewers are using a Fire TV streamer probably isn't much of a hardship as they're relatively inexpensive.

The Shield TV Pro is a great streamer but perhaps not as great as a media server. You can outfit it with an external (or network) tuner and use the pre-loaded Plex Server (with a Plex Pass subscription) or the new (or coming soon) Shield DVR software from Tablo but media servers are really best when you can inexpensively upgrade them (i.e. cheap, high-capacity 3.5" internal drives). The Shield TV certainly has the horsepower to do any transcoding that needs to be done.

Once you get a "real" media server, you start finding all sorts of interesting uses for them (like hosting your entire digital music and video collections).

I use Plex (with a lifetime Plex Pass) installed on a retired computer (Athlon XP) using a canned Ubuntu Linux installation from Plex. No command line Linux required. I believe the Plex client software is now free of charge and there are clients available for all the popular streamers.

I believe that NEXTGEN TV is far enough off that having an external tuner (or some other identified solution to upgrading) probably isn't a big deal.

One issue that needs to be considered is how the DVR handles shows that are back-to-back on the same channel. Some require two tuners to insure you get all of both shows while others (i.e. TiVo) do not. I don't see this discussed often enough in reviews. Shows starting early or late and running long or short perhaps isn't the problem it once was, but it is still an issue (especially if you're saving money by using fixed timers rather than guide service).

 

[ncted]

I would like to get back on topic because I hope to be cutting the cord in a few months and I'm going to need an OTA DVR solution. The contenders right now are the Amazon Recast or the new Nvidia Shield.

I've recently determined I am going to go with YouTube TV for now as my Recast cannot be counted on to record the shows it says it will record. Just last night, I checked to make sure the new Dateline episode was going to record on WRAL for my wife. This morning it wasn't in the DVR list. It seems like our Recast develops blind spots for certain shows and refuses to record them. In our case, Dateline, Sunday Today, and Survivor are probably not going to record. This might be specific to my particular device, but I am not the only person reporting it. I have done a factory reset a couple of times which clears things up for a time, but the issue always shows back up again sooner or later. I am going to keep the Recast, but only as a backup should YTTV fail to record something. I need something to get ESPN during F1 season anyway, so it might as well be YTTV.

Also, I dug out my Roku Ultra last night to see if I should switch to that, given we won't be using the Recast most of the time going forward. I have definitely gotten used to the Firestick. The biggest problem is the Rokus I have do not have Bluetooth for headphones (yes I know the remotes have headphone jacks), and there is no mute button on the remotes. I understand newer models have that, but I don't want to replace fairly new streaming devices on 4 TVs just to get a mute button when the Firesticks already have that functionality. So, I guess I'll stick with the Firesticks for the time being.

 

[lparsons21]

I would like to get back on topic because I hope to be cutting the cord in a few months and I'm going to need an OTA DVR solution. The contenders right now are the Amazon Recast or the new Nvidia Shield.

While I haven’t made the switch to OTA/Streaming yet, I do have the OTA DVR solution in hand. I have been trying to figure out how to have this OTA DVR solution integrate with streaming, but that to me is an effort in futility. Too many restrictions imo. Like only works with one streaming box or low OTA tuner counts and such. So I decided to use one box for OTA and a separate box for streaming.

In my case, I already have a Tivo Bolt that can do either OTA or cable. I tried it for a month for OTA and it worked very well. Has 4 tuners and the recording scheduler works superbly. Downside is that it doesn’t play well with others. IOW, for each TV I need a Tivo Mini since Tivo doesn’t have an app for streaming boxes to talk to the Bolt.

For streaming I use AppleTV though I do have other boxes that work well also, I just prefer the AppleTV.

Since you haven’t bought an OTA DVR yet, keep an eye on Tivo for sales as they often have very good ones. If I’m remembering right, I think I paid about $300 for my Bolt with ‘all in’ (lifetime) service.


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[harshness]

IOW, for each TV I need a Tivo Mini since Tivo doesn’t have an app for streaming boxes to talk to the Bolt.

Most of the other OTA DVR solutions (Plex, Tablo, Recast, Scribe) allow you to use a conventional streamer (Roku, Fire TV, ATV, Android TV) as a client so even if they aren't tightly integrated, you aren't as likely to have to change streaming devices to jump from OTA to something else.

For those who think I'm giving some of the also-rans (AirTV, $30 DTV tuners, etc.) the shaft, I've found that I need a minimum of three tuners (preferably four) for practical use if I'm going to lean on OTA as a major source of programming.

 

[lparsons21]

Most of the other OTA DVR solutions (Plex, Tablo, Recast, Scribe) allow you to use a conventional streamer (Roku, Fire TV, ATV, Android TV) as a client so even if they aren't tightly integrated, you aren't as likely to have to change streaming devices to jump from OTA to something else.

I noted that in my post, but they almost all limit which streaming box they’ll get along with. Personally I don’t see switching boxes as a big deal, takes about the same time as changing apps and is a single button push on my universal remote. Downside is the cost of a mini.

I have 3 TVs in my home. The main one has the Bolt connected, my bedroom has a mini and the guest bedroom has an AppleTV only. So no live tv for them. Not a big deal to me. Could be a big deal if you had lots of TVs to feed.



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[lparsons21]

For those who think I'm giving some of the also-rans (AirTV, $30 DTV tuners, etc.) the shaft, I've found that I need a minimum of three tuners (preferably four) for practical use if I'm going to lean on OTA as a major source of programming.

With most OTA stuff on one streamer or another, the need for actual OTA isn’t as necessary for me. I use OTA primarily for the news and other local interest stuff. For the scripted shows I generally get them with one of my subscription services. I can get all the locals other than CBS via my antenna, I get it via my CBS All Access subscription. Not being a big sports fan is a plus for cord cutting!!


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[osu1991]

I have the 4 tuner HD Homerun Quattro. I find myself using Plex or the HD Homerun app on the firesticks to watch OTA more and more, just because I'm already using the fire stick for Plex/EMBY, Philo or YTTV. With HDMI CEC its not a big deal switching inputs, the tv does it automatically as soon as I push the tivo button or the home button on the fire sticks, but you kind of get used to sticking to one device.

 

[harshness]

I noted that in my post, but they almost all limit which streaming box they’ll get along with.

With Plex and Tablo all popular streamers and a good chunk of the TV brands are supported. The Scribe supports all the streamers as well as Android and Roku TVs. Plex is even supported on TiVo!

 

[harshness]

With most OTA stuff on one streamer or another, the need for actual OTA isn’t as necessary for me. I use OTA primarily for the news and other local interest stuff.

In the end, going OTT with a $6 bill here and a $12 bill there may not allow one to realize the goal of not feeding the pig.

 

[lparsons21]

In the end, going OTT with a $6 bill here and a $12 bill there may not allow one to realize the goal of not feeding the pig.

OTT is a non-issue with me as it doesn’t bring anything to the table. Even though I haven’t cut the cord yet, I do sub to a few streamers, most for quite a long time. And I’m not ad-averse, so ad-supported subscriptions are OK with me too. Here’s my list that will probably not change when I cut the cord:
Netflix = $16
Hulu w/ads = $6
CBS w/ads = $6 (I think, on annual and haven’t looked)
Amazon Prime = $0 (shipping is worth the whole thing)

Plus some freebie ad-supported stuff. OTT is an issue for those that think they just have to duplicate at least some of their linear TV, I just see no value in it.


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[lparsons21]

With Plex and Tablo all popular streamers and a good chunk of the TV brands are supported. The Scribe supports all the streamers as well as Android and Roku TVs. Plex is even supported on TiVo!

Yeah, I know Plex is everywhere! I just never cared for it but I’d be hard pressed to tell you why.


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[ncted]

I noted that in my post, but they almost all limit which streaming box they’ll get along with. Personally I don’t see switching boxes as a big deal, takes about the same time as changing apps and is a single button push on my universal remote. Downside is the cost of a mini.

I have 3 TVs in my home. The main one has the Bolt connected, my bedroom has a mini and the guest bedroom has an AppleTV only. So no live tv for them. Not a big deal to me. Could be a big deal if you had lots of TVs to feed.



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I loved my Roamio/Stream/Mini setup. Unfortunately, the Rovi purchase of Tivo ruined the guide data. The annoying thing to me about switching inputs isn't the actual switching, which, as you say, takes about the same amount of time as opening an app. It is the additive effect of switching and then opening the app, which takes twice the time. Also, my wife could never keep track of which input was for what thing as some apps were on the Roamio (and subsequently the Hopper3), and others were only on the Roku.

 

[lparsons21]

I loved my Roamio/Stream/Mini setup. Unfortunately, the Rovi purchase of Tivo ruined the guide data. The annoying thing to me about switching inputs isn't the actual switching, which, as you say, takes about the same amount of time as opening an app. It is the additive effect of switching and then opening the app, which takes twice the time. Also, my wife could never keep track of which input was for what thing as some apps were on the Roamio (and subsequently the Hopper3), and others were only on the Roku.

I solved the issue of where which app was by just never using the apps on the Tivo! They are old versions and very flaky IMO. But I do understand the issue. I’m single so it is all 2nd nature to me, but over the holidays that I spent a little of in the hospital, my daughter and husband couldn’t figure out how to use my rig so they just watched OTA and their iPhones!


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[ncted]

I solved the issue of where which app was by just never using the apps on the Tivo! They are old versions and very flaky IMO. But I do understand the issue. I’m single so it is all 2nd nature to me, but over the holidays that I spent a little of in the hospital, my daughter and husband couldn’t figure out how to use my rig so they just watched OTA and their iPhones!


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I never could convince my wife that Netflix was better on the Roku when we had Tivo/Hoppers. She has learned pretty quickly that YTTV is better than the Recast DVR though!

 

[Zookster]

Also, I dug out my Roku Ultra last night to see if I should switch to that, given we won't be using the Recast most of the time going forward. I have definitely gotten used to the Firestick. The biggest problem is the Rokus I have do not have Bluetooth for headphones (yes I know the remotes have headphone jacks), and there is no mute button on the remotes. I understand newer models have that, but I don't want to replace fairly new streaming devices on 4 TVs just to get a mute button when the Firesticks already have that functionality. So, I guess I'll stick with the Firesticks for the time being.

Which Ultra do you have? I have the 2016 model (4640) and find my new 4K FireTV stick to be MUCH faster for loading YTTV, changing channels, and for FF/RW. It also integrates with my Echo dot, so I can use voice commands: "Alexa, mute FireTV" or "Alexa, skip ahead 3 minutes." Of course, I can also do that from the voice remote itself, but pointless in the case of hitting the mute button.

 

[ncted]

Which Ultra do you have? I have the 2016 model (4640) and find my new 4K FireTV stick to be MUCH faster for loading YTTV, changing channels, and for FF/RW. It also integrates with my Echo dot, so I can use voice commands: "Alexa, mute FireTV" or "Alexa, skip ahead 3 minutes." Of course, I can also do that from the voice remote itself, but pointless in the case of hitting the mute button.

My Ultra is the 4661R (2018). It is plenty fast. In my casual use last night, it was about as fast as the Firestick 4Ks I have on all my TVs now. Some things, specifically Netflix, seemed to load faster initially on the Roku, but other things were a bit slower. Once the apps were loaded, performance seemed comparable.

 

[harshness]

I think one of the lessons that we're learning here is that buying a super-powerful streamer (with the possible exception of the NVIDIA Shield that is insanely powerful) doesn't future proof you. It may be better to get a good unit every few years (or replace one each year when they go on sale for 40% off) rather than hoping you're going to get longer service out of a more expensive model.

Of course there's the back door of using an Xbox that has respectable streaming service support but you don't need a house full of those. The Playstation series has been on the trailing edge of the streaming service mainstream for a while but it may get you what you need (a YTTV app is said to be coming soon as of a reddit post yesterday).

As always, my position on television-based streaming apps is "enjoy it while you can".

 

[wormil]

I'm fine with buying a new streaming stick every few years and having a separate OTA DVR.