Cord Cutting - which box? Some comparisons

[harshness]

The Disney-Hulu-ESPN bundle is a great offering, but I don't think we'll see all the content on ESPN's linear channels available in a standalone streaming service for anything resembling a reasonable price anytime soon, not as long as cable TV still exists in its present form. Such an offering would represent a massive sea-change in the OTT landscape that would likely accompany death-knell of traditional pay TV as we know it. Not to mention, there are probably a lot of long-term contracts in place with the various sports leagues and cable operators that prevent that from happening. Heck, there isn't even a standalone RedZone yet due to prior contractual obligations.

I agree that this is what the few content owners that are left really want but I'm not sure that viewers want to suffer what is required to get there.

I submit that this "sea of change" will wash away services like Fubo and YTTV in favor of aggregators like Amazon, Apple TV and The Roku Channel but it may not take out the old school offerings of satellite and cable where multicast remains the order of the day. Thousands streaming their own stream is beyond what most systems can handle (or even be provisioned to handle).

 

[TheForce]

Don. Some channels on Fubo tv are still 30fps. Here’s a list that are currently 60fps.

What Channels on fuboTV are in 60 FPS?

Not every service offers every channel in 60 FPS. We show you which channels and on which devices you can stream at the higher frame rate on fuboTV.

thestreamable.com

Thanks! Good reference. I'm really liking the FuboTV with the DVR service. Only disadvantage is I can skip through commercials at 10 seconds a click while the Dish DVR had a 30 second skip. My Tivo Edge has entire commercial break skip on some channels otherwise I have to just use FF. But now that I figured out how to configure my Apple TV 4K for Fubo content on some channels not doing 4K, the quality is better than my Dish Network.

On a day like today with pouring raining, I lose half my Dish channels, everything not on 61.5. I am so ready to remove the VIP722K from the rack but I still have to resolve my wife's VIP722 access. That will require more social engineering than TV engineering.

 

[Zookster]

I agree that this is what the few content owners that are left really want but I'm not sure that viewers want to suffer what is required to get there.

I submit that this "sea of change" will wash away services like Fubo and YTTV in favor of aggregators like Amazon, Apple TV and The Roku Channel but it may not take out the old school offerings of satellite and cable where multicast remains the order of the day. Thousands streaming their own stream is beyond what most systems can handle (or even be provisioned to handle).

Then I submit Google is well-positioned to become an aggregator on par with the others you list, if that's the direction things go. They already have the largest video streaming platform in the world, including a vast move and TV show sales/rental catalog comparable to Amazon's or iTunes', and YouTube TV already offers as add-ons a large number of the "channels" you can get via Amazon Channels or the Roku Channel, the most notable exceptions being HBO and CBS All Access. To launch a full and comprehensive "channels" slate could almost be done as an afterthought for a company like Google, assuming they aren't working on it already.

 

[harshness]

To launch a full and comprehensive "channels" slate could almost be done as an afterthought for a company like Google, assuming they aren't working on it already.

The problem with Google as a TV provider is that they lack name recognition in the marketplace. Comparing it to PS Vue has always been a bad joke as PS Vue didn't have much name recognition as a TV service either.

While Google and its subsidiaries have millions of videos in their combined libraries, I'm not convinced they're ready to multicast one video to millions of viewers.

 

[harshness]

If the quality is poor, the service doesn't support automatic commercial skipping or the DVR stinks, those must be factored into the "needs".

I couldn't imagine it at the time of my earlier post, but apparently not all services broadly support >DD2.0. In a survey of Fubo live channels and demand content, I could find no channel or stream that offered better than stereo sound. I've tried both the Roku 3 and the Fire TV 4K. The sound quality was good enough but there was something noticeably missing.

Don: Do you get >DD2.0 with Fubo on your ATV 4K?

 

[Zookster]

The problem with Google as a TV provider is that they lack name recognition in the marketplace. Comparing it to PS Vue has always been a bad joke as PS Vue didn't have much name recognition as a TV service either.

While Google and its subsidiaries have millions of videos in their combined libraries, I'm not convinced they're ready to multicast one video to millions of viewers.

YouTube, which is owned by Google, has very good name recognition in the marketplace. They may also have some experience with streaming videos to millions of people. Certainly as much as anyone else.

 

[harshness]

YouTube, which is owned by Google, has very good name recognition in the marketplace. They may also have some experience with streaming videos to millions of people. Certainly as much as anyone else.

Outside of the ads that appear on YouTube, I'm doubtful that viewers that aren't actively looking for cord-cutting alternatives have really been exposed to their live TV product as an alternative to the name brands (primarily Hulu?) in any meaningful way.

Sony and Playstation are widely recognized in their respective spaces but we know that they couldn't make a go of live TV through PS Vue. Parent or sibling recognition isn't enough.

 

[TheForce]

Don: Do you get >DD2.0 with Fubo on your ATV 4K?

I'll have to check, but my AVR shows "Multi In" for audio or "DD Surround"

Many channels and apps on ATV4K now offer Atmos( I believe on Fubo too) but my speakers are only 7.1 now. So I set up the ATV4K for DD5.1 as there are no streaming sources for 7.1 that I saw. I may not be doing that right but still learning. If the source does not support DD5.1, the AVR shows "Stereo"

___________________________
Beginning to set up step 2 of my cord cutting 30 day plan. Cancelled the extra premium services now on Dish Network. I don't plan to cancel the entire service until later in January.

I also spent some time learning about TIVO Mini Vox for our Kitchen TV. This will allow my wife to have full TIVO DVR service and control by voice or TIVO remote for her own programming. It was a little confusing but learned that the TIVO and the TIVO Mini has to be wired to ethernet, not wifi or additional wiring and hardware is required. Fortunately I don't use wifi in my home theater, everything is on it's own ethernet switch so this should be simple.

 

[Zookster]

Outside of the ads that appear on YouTube, I'm doubtful that viewers that aren't actively looking for cord-cutting alternatives have really been exposed to their live TV product as an alternative to the name brands (primarily Hulu?) in any meaningful way.

Compared to Roku? Really? As you posted above:

I submit that this "sea of change" will wash away services like Fubo and YTTV in favor of aggregators like Amazon, Apple TV and The Roku Channel

Everyone who has a computer or internet access knows about YouTube and Google. Roku would only be familiar to those seeking cord-cutting options, especially as smart TVs give most people what they need in the form of the most popular streaming apps. And even if you have a Roku, it's still easy to overlook the Roku Channel and its add-on channel offerings.

Maybe I'm just tuned in to it, but I see YouTube TV commercials on linear TV (major sporting events) constantly. I know PS Vue tried that too for a time (sponsoring major sports events), but they suffered from confusion over the need for a Playstation device and failed to rebrand to avoid the confusion.

As far as growth in the past year, from what numbers the media is given access to, YouTube TV seems to be a front runner and has been highlighted on a number of end-of-year Best of 2019 lists.

Best Streaming Services of 2024

If you need help choosing among all the streaming service options available, this list can simplify the process.

www.cnet.com

The 2019 cord-cutter awards: Best devices, services and innovations

Here are the best cord-cutting services, devices, and innovations of 2019.

www.techhive.com

In July this year, an article in Barrons stated:

There have been noteworthy shifts in market share—minimal consequences for switching have meant the market hasn’t been especially sticky. Leading the market is YouTube TV, with 42% of the market; with Sling at 16%; AT&T’s DirecTV Now at 15%; and Watch TV at 9%; with smaller share for the other players.

To look at it another way, Google suddenly finds itself as one of the country’s most important distributors of cable TV content—and barring any reversal of the trend, YouTube TV’s position likely will only strengthen over time.

Source: Cable Television Is Crumbling. It’s Great News for Google’s YouTube TV.


"Lack of name recognition in the marketplace" would be the last thing Google/YouTube would ever need to worry about if they ever went all-in on the channel aggregator approach. It would be bad news for Amazon, Apple, and Roku. Especially Roku.

 

[harshness]

I'm getting the AVR default surround mode for all channels and streams on Fubo. I was expecting either Dolby Digital or Dolby Digital +. My AVR is pre-Atmos but it is 9.2 (front height speakers) and shows surround content as Dolby Digital (+) where available.

This falls under the topic of which box because not all boxes support all advanced features with all services.

 

[TheForce]

I'm getting the AVR default surround mode for all channels and streams on Fubo. I was expecting either Dolby Digital or Dolby Digital +. My AVR is pre-Atmos but it is 9.2 (front height speakers) and shows surround content as Dolby Digital (+) where available.

This falls under the topic of which box because not all boxes support all advanced features with all services.

OK I did some more specific tests with the ATV 4K set for auto including Dolby Atmos-
Hulu & FUBO TV: All programs appeared to be Stereo only which is OK with me for what I use FUBO for. Wish Hulu app on ATV had DD5.1.
DD 5.1, DD Atmos is available only on Amazon, Netflix, Disney+ from what I checked out.

I have a new Sony UHD player and the TIVO with Hulu Apps to compare later.

Cord cutting is very complicated now because there are so many options, video with HDR, 60fps, 30fps, UHD, and it varies with different devices and apps.

My AVR is new because my older 11.2 had trouble with 4K processing so my UHD player needed to split the video and audio, runninjg the 4K video direct to the projector. Now I can run all video through the AVR. At least that is simple because it allows many sources to be 4K. The New AVR is much less expensive than the original one.
It's a Denon AVR-S940H which replaced the 4311CI.

 

[schneid]

What is 9.2. On DD+ my Onykyo is 7.2 - LRC, LR Side, LR Rear, and two Subs. On Atmos it is 5.2.2 - LRC, LR Side, two Subs, and LR Rear Height.

 

[harshness]

All programs appeared to be Stereo only which is OK with me for what I use FUBO for. Wish Hulu app on ATV had DD5.1.
DD 5.1, DD Atmos is available only on Amazon, Netflix, Disney+ from what I checked out.

Thank you for promptly looking into that.

Stereo isn't going to get it for me. Stereo is just sooo SD. Most of us who were around 35 years ago were receiving MTS stereo from some of our OTA stations.

I recall that other streaming services started out that way as well but most of them have made the leap to at least 5.1.

 

[harshness]

What is 9.2.

As I preemptively placed in parens in post #90, 9.2 included two channels for speakers that were to be mounted above the front spreakers (hence the term "height speakers"). It is very similar to an Atmos 7.1.2 configuration. Dolby subsequently changed the nomenclature:

x.y.z

x = fronts + center + surrounds + backs
y = subs
z = overheads

 

[TheForce]

harshness- I use Fubo for the news channels and other content, like History and Discovery cable channels just about 100% of my viewing on Fubo. Much of the sound is dialog in my programming choice so DD5.1 or more just isn't produced in the content anyway. Many news shows are not even in stereo. However, if you prefer to have rear channels active, doesn't most AVR's offer the bridged front and rear speakers to fill the room, just that left side and left fronts and left rears are all same. I believe my AVR also offers simulated surround sound too for the stereo sources. When I listen to Dish Network that sends DD5.1 out to the bird the sound from those rear channels is all but silent, however the fronts including the center has zero stereo separation. So while Dish Network shows up as DD5.1, the actual sound is monaural on the news channels and some others. That DD5.1 surfaces however when listening to HBO or Showtime movies with DD5.1 source.

My older Denon AVR had 11.2. Many pages of speaker layout for the home theater in the manual. I just stuck with 7.1 as most of the Blu Ray sources had 7.1 or 5.1. At one time I had four sub woofers on two 2KW amps but one amp blew and I never replaced it. Switched back to 7.1 now.

 

[harshness]

Of course Fubo isn't limited to news and documentary shows but their sound seems to be limited to stereo (at best) across the board even if the channel is delivered with something better.

To me, it is kind of like someone down-converting all of your 4K, 3D or VR productions to HD -- something is lost in the translation.

 

[TheForce]

I guess my point was that the original productions on most of the channels on Fubo are not done in DD5.1 or higher. I suppose you could find a movie on FX that was dumbed down, but in my case I would prefer to watch that movie on Amazon Prime, Netflix, Redbox, or my personal library of disks.

Given a choice to have DD5.1 on CNBC for my finance shows, or a 30 second skip ahead and a way to delete more than one at a time from the DVR, I would pick the last two while you would want the Dolby Digital audio.
Overall I am pretty pleased with the Fubo service.

Have you seen The Aeronaut on Amazon yet? Very nice high quality surround audio and HDR image quality.


I wonder if anyone here has tried the TIVO Mini VOX to add a second TV to the TIVO DVR Edge? Supposed to be delivered here on Friday I hope it works as they claim.

 

[osu1991]

I wonder if anyone here has tried the TIVO Mini VOX to add a second TV to the TIVO DVR Edge? Supposed to be delivered here on Friday I hope it works as they claim.

I don’t have the Mini Vox or Edge, but I do have 5 of the older minis and 5 Roamio/Bolt TiVo dvr’s . The older TiVo Minis work great with my TiVo Roamio and Bolts. I have them connected via moca and via Ethernet in the home in Oklahoma and via Ethernet only in the condo in Las Vegas. 2 Roamio’s and 1 Bolt are OTA and the others are currently on Cox.

The minis are as fast as the main dvr. The apps are pretty slow to non functioning on the older Roamio and A93 Mini hardware. That’s not supposed to be an issue on the newer Mini Vox and Edge.

 

[harshness]

I guess my point was that the original productions on most of the channels on Fubo are not done in DD5.1 or higher.

I bet your wrong. My local channels all have 5.1 programming at some point (yes, I know you're getting them elsewhere). Many sporting events have some sort of surround sound. Most all movies made since the mid 1980s have multichannel sound. TNT's Star Wars demand offerings are all in stereo on Fubo and that's a crying shame.

Not everyone has the cash to spread around on multiple services and if you're going to pop $55-80 for Fubo, you're buying into the high end of one-stop live streaming TV.

The Aeronaut is a good movie. There were some conflicts with physics evident but it was very good entertainment nonetheless for those who are willing to "suspend disbelief".

 

[TheForce]

Yes, like staying alive at 37,000 feet.

Anyway, to get what I want in programming, I needed a couple cord cutting sources. I do agree with you about TNT not having 5.1 on those movies if that is your only way to see those movies. I can't recall the last time I watched that channel. We have Fubo for different reasons.

Anyway, Happy New Year.