Coolsat 8100 Audio Problems with NBC HD

[N6BY]

I just purchased a Coolsat 8100 HD and I'm having trouble receiving audio for the NBC HD channels on AMC18 (105W). I am hoping there is a simple solution to this.

I discovered that pressing the 'opt' button near the bottom of the remote control will show the audio tracks and it lets me choose which one I want. With NBC HD there are 4 audio channels -- 'aaa', 'aac', 'aae' and 'aag'.

Audio channel 'aaa' usually has just the background sounds -- no voice. And 'aac' has just the voice. On some commercials, however, the 'aaa' channel has both voice and background. Channel 'aae' sometimes has the voice, but not as loud. And channel 'aag' is usually nothing.

I hope someone can help me -- I'm very frustrated. Before the Coolsat 8100 I had a VS Max HD, which couldn't get NBC HD at all.

I have the latest Coolsat firmware -- s/w version 2.02.5A. And my hardware version is 1.00.00.

Is there a way to get both voice and background sounds at the same time?

 

[pedrogarcia]

I believe the coolsat 8100 HD only has mpeg 1/2 audio unless you use the optical audio ouput to receive AC3 (digital dolby 5.1 suround)

 

[N6BY]

Does anyone here own a Coolsat 8000 or 8100 that outputs both voice and background (at the same time) on NBC HD?

I can get one or the other, but not both together. I've tried both optical audio and red/white RCA sound cables and still no muxed sound.

 

[brentb636]

I think you just have to pick the one you can adjust the best.

 

[stogie5150]

There's nothing wrong with your receiver. That's just the way NBC does things. We don't usually complain too much, because karma would have them then switch to Dolby E audio, which NO consumer receiver can decode, which would leave us a beautiful picture but no audio.

Just have to deal with it.

 

[B.J.]

Does anyone here own a Coolsat 8000 or 8100 that outputs both voice and background (at the same time) on NBC HD?

I can get one or the other, but not both together. I've tried both optical audio and red/white RCA sound cables and still no muxed sound.

I don't think the problem is related to the Coolsat, but instead it's just the way NBC has divided up the audio streams on that mux. I don't tune that in often, but when I have, my 8100 could receive audio of each type, but you're just stuck with whichever audio stream you select. It's the same regardless of what receiver you use.
Really strange way of dividing up the audio though, I was watching once, and about every other commercial had audio on the audios stream I had selected. I think I read that commercials in AC3 they sent on one audio stream, and commercials in mpeg were sent over another stream (the 8100 does AC3 fine, I think any receiver that also does ATSC OTA has to do internal AC3 decoding). I think if I had been tuned to another audio streams I would have gotten audio on the commercials that I was missing it on.
Anyway, I think you are just stuck with choosing the audio stream that gives you the closest to what you want, unless you get two receivers and tune to two different audio streams.
When I heard about this issue, I was excited, because I heard that one of the audio streams had just crowd noise and no commentary during NFL games, which is something I used to really like years ago, when they had an audio subcarrier with just crowd noise on analog backhauls. However I never got a chance to try it out.

 

[pedrogarcia]

Are you actually saying the 5.1 audio is split overeffectively 3 channels?

Surely if their commercial sponsors knew this, they would put pressure on NBC to conform to a standard audio transmission

 

[B.J.]

Since I haven't tuned in those channels for a while, I just tuned them in, and it looks like things are different than the last time I was there.

First of all, I'm not even seeing NBC on that Telemundo mux. And the regular NBC mux doesn't have ANY AC3 audio streams, just 4 regular mpeg streams. So apparently AC3 isn't an issue at all. I don't have it hooked up to my Coolsat right now, so I can't listen to see what's on each audio stream, just looking at the TSREADER display.

 

[brentb636]

Transedit shows 14 separate audio PIDs and 3 h.264 Video PIDs and 1 mpeg2 video PID. The h.264 VPIDs each have 4 APIDs and the Mpeg2 VPID has 2 APIDs .
We have to bear in mind that this uplink is not intended for our use. We have to deal with what we get. Always have the option not to tune it in, I suppose.

 

[B.J.]

Transedit shows 14 separate audio PIDs and 3 h.264 Video PIDs . We have to bear in mind that this uplink is not intended for our use. We have to deal with what we get. Always have the option not to tune it in, I suppose.

Are you talking about the 3780 transponder?
If so, TSREADER shows18 separate audio and 4 h264 video and one (the sports channel) regular mpeg SD video channel.

I'm not familiar with the Transedit program. Wonder why it would have different results?

 

[brentb636]

I'm on the Ku band TP, 12000 H 30000 5/6 Pilot = on . The C-band mux must have another h.264 channel. Transedit , an adjunct of DVBViewer Pro, is what you'd use with a TT3200 and BDA drivers . I use the TT3200 and Transedit for the DVB-s2 stuff and skywalker-1 with Tsreader for everything else. [edit] And , as you observe on the C-band side, there is NO AC-3 audio in the Ku band mux .

 

[B.J.]

I'm on the Ku band TP, 12000 H 30000 5/6 Pilot = on . The C-band mux must have another h.264 channel. Transedit , an adjunct of DVBViewer Pro, is what you'd use with a TT3200 and BDA drivers . I use the TT3200 and Transedit for the DVB-s2 stuff and skywalker-1 with Tsreader for everything else. [edit] And , as you observe on the C-band side, there is NO AC-3 audio in the Ku band mux .

Oh.... OK, thanks. I forgot about the Ku feed, but isn't it on AMC1?

 

[brentb636]

Yes, you're correct, I'm talking 103W .

 

[N6BY]

Thanks Brent and B.J. Glad its nothing wrong with my receiver.

I can usually leave it set on 'aac' and get most of the audio. However, on Saturday Night Live last night some of the skits were on the 'aaa' audio. So I had to switch back and forth a lot.

Now I'm watching the golf finals on NBC HD and the 'aag' channel has all the sound. I normally don't watch golf at all, but I've got a REALLY bad case of the flu and no energy to get out of the chair. Ugh.

I've been watching NBC on C-Band 105W. I tried to tune in 12000H on 103W and couldn't get it. Are you sure about the symbol rate and FEC?

 

[brentb636]

12000 H 30000 FEC 5/6 pilot =ON
DVB-S2 8psk
I'm sure, and I get it on a 90cm dish from western Michigan.
I do know that the aim is critical on this mux and the LPB mux on AMC21.
8psk ( and low FEC) is mighty unforgiving .

 

[B.J.]

12000 H 30000 FEC 5/6 pilot =ON
DVB-S2 8psk
I'm sure, and I get it on a 90cm dish from western Michigan.
I do know that the aim is critical on this mux and the LPB mux on AMC21.
8psk ( and low FEC) is mighty unforgiving .

I have tuned that transponder before, but I think it was with my BUD. The problem with AMC1 is that the polarity is off by something like 24 deg, and perfect polarity is important for DVB-S2. The BUDs allow you to adjust polarity.

I tried it today with my 90CM, and got interesting bad results. With my Diamond, I was able to lock the transponder, and it was giving a fairly good signal, something like 75/75, however, when I went to scan in channels, nothing scanned in, which is strange. So then I decided to try with my 3200. I couldn't lock the transponder at all for some reason. I've never seen a case where I got 75/75 on the Diamond, and the 3200 couldn't lock it. Only thing I can think is that the polarity problem is more critical with the 3200 for some reason.
Anyway, it's strange that I could lock it and get a strong signal with the diamond, but not scan in any channels, and not be able to even lock it with the TT3200.

I guess that tomorrow I'll try with the BUD, and/or with my Coolsat.

 

[N6BY]

12000 H 30000 FEC 5/6 pilot =ON
DVB-S2 8psk
I'm sure, and I get it on a 90cm dish from western Michigan.
I do know that the aim is critical on this mux and the LPB mux on AMC21.
8psk ( and low FEC) is mighty unforgiving .

My BUD is OK but not great for KU. That explains it. Maybe I'll see if I can get it with my 90 cm solid dish. It performs much better in KU band than the BUD.

I have tuned that transponder before, but I think it was with my BUD. The problem with AMC1 is that the polarity is off by something like 24 deg, and perfect polarity is important for DVB-S2. The BUDs allow you to adjust polarity....

Thats good to know -- I never would have guessed that the polarity would be off by that much. On a weak signal, that can make a huge difference. Anyway, when I go out and try to aim my 90 cm at AMC1 I'll be sure to adjust for it. I wonder why they made AMC1 24 degrees off?

 

[B.J.]

Thats good to know -- I never would have guessed that the polarity would be off by that much. On a weak signal, that can make a huge difference. Anyway, when I go out and try to aim my 90 cm at AMC1 I'll be sure to adjust for it. I wonder why they made AMC1 24 degrees off?

Actually, I was off by a couple degrees, it's 26 deg.
See SES AMERICOM - AMC-1
next to last row in specs.

I have NO idea why they did that. I have read in another forum that it might have had something to do with them trying to make things easier for network dishes on rooftops in New York city, but that doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. It used to be that this sat was sort of off by itself, with no neighbors, then another AMC (GE) sat went up next to it, and it too had an offset, but I think that offset was removed, as AMC1 now seems to be the only one.

Anyway, it's a real mystery to me, and it can cause trouble on difficult transponders for lnbf users.

 

[N6BY]

Actually, I was off by a couple degrees, it's 26 deg.
See SES AMERICOM - AMC-1
next to last row in specs.

I have NO idea why they did that. I have read in another forum that it might have had something to do with them trying to make things easier for network dishes on rooftops in New York city, but that doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. It used to be that this sat was sort of off by itself, with no neighbors, then another AMC (GE) sat went up next to it, and it too had an offset, but I think that offset was removed, as AMC1 now seems to be the only one.

Anyway, it's a real mystery to me, and it can cause trouble on difficult transponders for lnbf users.

I was thinking that they might be trying to reduce adjacent satellite interference, but that doesn't make sense if it had no neighbors for a while.

My motorized BUD can only get satellites with 0 polarization offset (unless I want to climb up there and turn it by hand each time I aim at AMC1). So this sat is probably a good use for my fixed 90 cm dish.