Coolsat 8000 wont recognize 1 port on 4x1?

[Mr Tony]

OK this is just plain weird.

Hooked up a 4x1 Diseqc switch (DMSI) to the Coolsat 8000
port 1 is G4/G10 setup (22k switch involved)
port 2 is a feed from motor and a LNB at 87W (again 22k involved)
port 3 is from 74/85 (again 22k switch involved)
port 4 is a straight shot from 93 (no 22k switch )

all work except for port 4. It will sometimes stick but then get no signal....OK so I thought it was the switch....swap switches...same thing
Tried new cable...same thing
Swapped inputs....put 93 on port 3 and 74/85 on port 4....93 works but 74/85 does not.

I even tried the old switch LNB LO to 10000 and then back to 10750. This usually solves the trick...nothing (and yes I have an active TP set in)

Anybody else with a Coolsat 8000 experience this? Where one port just won't work?

 

[voomvoom]

I don't have the 8000, but I'm using 2 @ 5000's on the T90 at my sisters, with EMP 8x1 switches and one or the other does that on some of the ports. One will get all of the ports and the other won't. What is strange to me, is one day it does it on one Coolsat and another day it might be the other Coolsat. Sometimes all the ports work on both switches. The worst I've seen is one port on one and several on the other, but usually one switch is working completely. I've switched the 4x4 switches on those ports when this happens, trying to get them all to work at the same time, to no avail. I've switched one of the 8x1's and no help. It's not always the same ports either and it might be just one or it might be as many as 5 ports that do this. I really haven't messed around with it enough to find a solution. It's been to hot and my sister is content with G10, which is on a port that seems to always work. When it gets cooler, maybe I'll get in her attic and on her roof and try to find a solution?
I don't know what/how to do for this problem. I think it's electrical , and I'm now leaning toward the lnbf's, and away from the switches. Maybe it's in the Coolsats 1.1 diseqc commands? I know this is no help to you Tony, but maybe the problems are related?

Al

 

[colbec]

Did you test for voltage at the lnb on the dead line?

Is it possible that a 22K related signal is bleeding over into neighbouring ports?

 

[Mr Tony]

I dont know Al but its weird...I scrapped that idea and now only have the motor/87 combo on one port, 99 C-Band on port 2 and 123 KU on port 3 and it works fine

I wanted to use 74/85 on there because some HD is usually on there feed wise...guess I'll use the motor feed for that

 

[Mr Tony]

Did you test for voltage at the lnb on the dead line?

Is it possible that a 22K related signal is bleeding over into neighbouring ports?

When I hook the switch up to my Pansat 15000 all ports work fine so its gotta be the box. I did try a new line to and same thing

 

[colbec]

Very interesting. So the issue then is what could the Coolsat be doing wrong that is generating the observed symptoms...

In theory when using a diseqc switch and a 22K switch the box must be trying to send both a direct current and an alternating oscillating signal down the same line. The direct current at 13/18V is for the benefit of the lnb so that it can switch H/V/L/R and get power. The oscillating 22K signal must also have some voltage involved, say it cycles from +5 to -5 to produce the signal. Assume too that there is a capacitor/circuit in the switch that deals with this +5 to -5 to produce 0V which ensures that there is no change to the lnb voltage.

Now take away the switch on one port. The capacitor is gone. Provided there is no tone being sent voltage is stable. Now for some reason a tone bleeds over and now the lnb on one port is experiencing an oscillating voltage where it should not. What would be the effect on the incoming signal? Perhaps my picture here is as haywire as the incoming signal might be?

(I've had run-ins recently with switches that look and feel ok but in fact are somewhat broken inside, so maybe I am overly sensitive to the role of the switch.)

 

[Mr Tony]

well now this gets weirder

set it up as such
99 C-Band port 1
G10 KU port 2
87 port 3
motorized feed port 4 (this is NOT motorized...its just a feed off the 2nd output of the motorized setup...the CS5000 controls the motor)

now both the 8000 AND the Pansat 1500 don't register it...but if I put 87 & motorized feed on a 22k switch both work fine

 

[Anole]

couple of thoughts to ponder

1). it's unclear, but appears the some receiver can send diseqc commands several times, if you wish.
- is that something you could try ?

2). the 12 or 18 volt DC power has a small 22khz tone impressed on it, with an amplitude of about .6 volts (from memory, see the specs if you care)
So, that means the 12 would vary from 11.7 to 12.3 at the 22khz rate, etc.

3). on MyTheatre forum, they have mods to cheap diseqc switches to handle the lower 22khz tone bursts that Twinhan cards put out.
- real switches don't seem to have a problem with 'em.
- maybe change switches, and see what happens...?

4). here's one I like: if a switch doesn't pass power to inputs which are off, but have other switches (not LNBs) on them, what happens when that switch-port is reselected?
- does the receiver initialize the 2nd level switch properly?
- does the 2nd level switch have time to properly power-up?
- this could be a timing problem with the receiver.

5). I think there are several failure modes to diseqc switches:
a - doesn't pass through the signal
b - doesn't send power to the LNB
c - selects more than one source (but perhaps only one is powered)
d - sends power to more than one LNB, but selects signal from only one
- (c) & (d) seems to be quite insidious.
there isn't a lot of isolation between input ports, so having live LNBs could cause cross-talk.
(I actually read about a cross-talk problem here on the forum - user had two powered LNBs and a diseqc switch)

If all else fails, change the receiver. -

 

[voomvoom]

Update to my sisters port problems. After I posted yesterday (post #2), and after the Little League World Series US Championship was over (Go Warner Robins, WRALL), my sister called me and wasn't getting anything. I went over and we had a Storm come through about dark Thursday night and the Primestar (the tall dish in my Avartar) and pole blew off the Gable Mount. The 5 @ RG6 cables going to the 3 LNBF's, probably kept it from blowing off the roof. The plastic piece on the 1m Primestar, where the LNBF mounts and the brackets meet, busted pretty bad. 2 of the brackets broke completely away from the mount and the 3rd one busted at the screw and slid down the bracket. Other than the plastic piece itself, the rest of the assembly looks to be fine.
The Torodial 90 Dish (the lower dish on my Avatar) only blew off it's axis, it spun around on the pole just slightly. I loosened the bolts and turned it back in place, and tightened it back up. Other than the switching problem, already being discussed in this thread, it should be fine. I'm seriously thinking about not putting the Primestar back. The T90 was set for 72.0w (AMC6) to 113.0w (Satmex6), with the Primestar on 123.0w (G10) with 119.0w (NASA & music)) and 129.0w (White Springs), on side LNBF's. I think I will change/shift the T90 to the west a little to get what the Primestar LNBF's were getting. And maybe there will be less headache with the switching. My sister only cares for 129.0w (White Springs), 123.0w (G10), 101.0w (AMC4), and 97.0w (T5/IA5/G25) anyway. So it would probably be for the best?

Al

 

[Mr Tony]

1). it's unclear, but appears the some receiver can send diseqc commands several times, if you wish.
- is that something you could try ?

I know the receiver sends diseqc commands every time I change the channel. The port with the 22k on I can actually hear it "click" when I change to a channel that the 22k uses (which at the time was 87W...I have since put that on the 0k side)

4). here's one I like: if a switch doesn't pass power to inputs which are off, but have other switches (not LNBs) on them, what happens when that switch-port is reselected?
- does the receiver initialize the 2nd level switch properly?
- does the 2nd level switch have time to properly power-up?
- this could be a timing problem with the receiver.

when I had 7 LNB's on it (ports 1-3 had 22k switches) the switching worked fine except for port 4 for some odd reason. Even when I had just 4 LNB's on it and no 22k switches port 4 wouldn't work

5). I think there are several failure modes to diseqc switches:
a - doesn't pass through the signal
b - doesn't send power to the LNB
c - selects more than one source (but perhaps only one is powered)
d - sends power to more than one LNB, but selects signal from only one
- (c) & (d) seems to be quite insidious.
there isn't a lot of isolation between input ports, so having live LNBs could cause cross-talk.
(I actually read about a cross-talk problem here on the forum - user had two powered LNBs and a diseqc switch)

If all else fails, change the receiver. -

I have tried a new receiver and originally it worked. The 1500 would run all 4 ports. Now port 4 doesn't work again

Oh well....today may be try a 4th switch day....and yes I am turning off the receiver when switching out the switch

 

[Keith Brannen]

I have tried a new receiver and originally it worked. The 1500 would run all 4 ports. Now port 4 doesn't work again

Oh well....today may be try a 4th switch day....and yes I am turning off the receiver when switching out the switch

Don't know whether this will help figure out the problem or not, but try the new switch and setup with the Pansat 1500 first and let it run for a while (if it works) before switching to the Coolsat 8000. It sort of sounds like the Coolsat 8000 is doing something to port4 causing eventual total failure on the port, but the Pansat 1500 could still use it for a bit before total failure.

Of course, it real sounds like you have gremlins living in your switches lately!

 

[Mr Tony]

Well I guess I need to read the "Tip of the Iceberg" more often

the first post I ever did on that was simple

Make sure to power off receiver with switch in back when adding/removing switches/LNB's so you don't do damage

Maybe I should addend that to this

Make sure you turn off ALL receivers attached to a LNB before adding a switch

yes I turned off the Coolsat 8000 but the feed from the motorized the other port was hooked to the Coolsat 5000 which was still powered on

turned off both receivers, swapped switches and now its working

 

[Tron]

Glad you caught the problem and all is working now I've come very close to frying switches on numerous occasions, I think the problem for me is that my mind is engaged on the work at hand and sometimes I don't think about taking that precaution.