Contact BBB

[ShaneLinder]

Sky angel is no longer representing itself in a christian manner by breaching the lifetime contract.

I think young David had a very good attitude toward King Saul. It is not up to me to determine if others are conducting themselves as Christians. If they profess to be Christian, I take them at their word and treat them accordingly. Remember, Paul said it is better to suffer harm done. Are we willing to suffer harm done?

 

[elder]

Didn't Paul also make the point that rather than go outside the congregation to seek judges we look inside "So, is not one among you wise, who will be able to judge between one and his brother?" So where is that wise one that can judge between us and Sky Angel? I think several of us are wise enough to do it, but Sky Angel doesn't seem interested. So the question seems to be are they our brothers? How can we tell other than by their fruit . . . and if that fruit includes swindling, do we keep silent or address it as Paul did?

What we are doing, wittingly or unwittingly, is participating in a Beit Midrash learning experience as opposed to the Greco-Roman technique followed by most congregations. In a Beit Midrash we may freely and even passionately express our opinions based upon our study of the scriptures. I mean hopefully based upon our own study as it is easy to parrot what we have been spoon-fed by others based upon denominational tilt. But we need to stay short of alienating anyone or we all lose. After all iron sharpens iron so by hearing your position I either grow mine or learn from you and vice versa. So I hope my comments don't alienate anyone.

 

[elder]

Is there any guess as to how many subs may have contacted BBB?

 

[kskyangel]

i still have the 4 secular channels and the BBB is closing my complaint since skyangel will not remove the discloser to change terms, the file will state that customer is dissatisfied.

 

[elder]

i still have the 4 secular channels and the BBB is closing my complaint since skyangel will not remove the discloser to change terms, the file will state that customer is dissatisfied.

Similar situation here, BBB hasn't closed it yet but here is my current response:

I thank BBB for its attempts to resolve this matter but we appear to be at an impasse. For some reason Sky Angel insists upon referring to the "most current Terms and Conditions" as if I am somehow subject to a living and ever changing set of Terms and Conditions which I am suggesting that Sky Angel modify. This is not the case at all that document is applicable to individual subscribers who pay monthly, yearly or whatever. Presumably Sky Angel can modify them at its whim to be effective at the end of a current billing period and if the subscriber disagrees he has the option to cancel his subscription. As a lifelong subscriber I hold Subscriber Provisions which are complete, concise, unambiguous and most definitely not open-ended. They are written to remain in effect until one or the other of the lifetimes ends as clearly stated in Exhibit A to my letter of complaint and excerpted here, “For those who purchased the lifelong subscription it will last for the operating lifetime of the Dominion Sky Angel domestic U.S. DBS service and for the lifetime of the subscriber and his or her spouse without any further subscription fees and includes a minimum of 32 television and radio channels selected at Dominion's sole discretion."

 

[lovejesus]

I think you people getting ahlold of the BBB should look at yourself, and see if deep down inside if you are a true CHRISTIAN or not. I think SKY ANGEL is great, I also thank GOD for SKY ANGEL. I will be Praying for all of you.

 

[lumpkin666]

I think you people getting ahlold of the BBB should look at yourself, and see if deep down inside if you are a true CHRISTIAN or not. I think SKY ANGEL is great, I also thank GOD for SKY ANGEL. I will be Praying for all of you.

This "who is the better Christian" stuff keeps sneaking its way in here. I don't blame anyone for wanting to voice their concerns over another's beliefs, but I also don't think here is the right place. True Christians can have faults just like anyone, and doubting one's Chritianity based on such a trivial thing is a serious flaw for a Christian in itself.

I've said it before, and I'll reiterate my stand, SA cannot be a Christian, as it is a business institution. SA is not a formal ministry, and has no religious leader from an organized religion who can stand as judge against it, therefore it cannot fall under the protection of a Christian. As a Christian, you have a religious authority who judges your conduct here on earth - thus no need for individuals to bring about judgement. This authority protects other Christians from harm of illegal, sinful, or immoral actions as well as protecting the Gospel. Again, SA reports to no religious authority and therefore the only way to protect ourselves and others from being pilliged of our rights and our investments and having harm come to the gospel, is to go to their only authority (the law) and plead for justice.

For those who have other opinions about the subject of SA, please feel free to voice them. However, please be Christian (if that is what you proclaim to be) in the manner in which you voice your opinions, and don't judge others for their decisions just because they do not have the same feelings about the subject as you.

 

[tjo49770]

I did send SA an email about the lifetime membership changes. I did not send them the form that they asked for...here is their response:

Dear Mr. O'Keefe:

As you know, your lifelong subscription covers reception of our basic programming package of faith-based programming. In the past, we have elected to make available to you at no additional charge, the four special secular channels (Hallmark, Hallmark Movie Channel, HGTV, and Fox News). Recent developments at Dominion Video Satellite, Inc. (“Sky Angel”) has made it necessary to require those who wish to continue receiving these four channels to remit a small monthly service fee of just $4.99 per month (plus tax if applicable) beginning May 1, 2007. Of course, there is no obligation to receive these four channels and your lifelong subscription to our faith-based programming package will not be affected if you decide that you no longer wish to receive these four special secular channels.

Please refer to the Lifelong Letter and the most current Terms and Conditions.

Thank you for writing Sky Angel.

God bless,

Sky Angel


So I have now filed a complaint with the BBB in Florida that followed the example of a complaint and resolution requested found in this forum. The complaint addresses all lifetime memberships and any changes to the original agreements and the 32 promised channels. I will continue to update how this goes.

I also emailed SA again, stating that I don't agree with them.

 

[ShaneLinder]

I have no issue with anyone trying to work this issue out through the BBB. I do not support litigation. Currently SA only provides 29 faith-based channels. However if one asks for the DISH PI channels they will get seven more English-speaking channels and soon eight with the addition of 3ABN. While SA isn't providing these channels, the SA subscriber can get them for free only becuase of their SA subscription. So in that light, the complaint about not getting 32 channels seems a little shallow to me.

I completely agree with the sentiment that on a satellite-forum we shouldn't be condemning other peoples' practice of Christianity. The forum seems to me to be a place to discuss and learn more about satellite, television and radio technology and not a religious forum although it is understandable some religion is going to be discussed in the course of discussing religious programing.

 

[elder]

I have no issue with anyone trying to work this issue out through the BBB. I do not support litigation. Currently SA only provides 29 faith-based channels. However if one asks for the DISH PI channels they will get seven more English-speaking channels and soon eight with the addition of 3ABN. While SA isn't providing these channels, the SA subscriber can get them for free only becuase of their SA subscription. So in that light, the complaint about not getting 32 channels seems a little shallow to me.

Following your logic why not count the Dish info channels and give up a couple more SA channels. Seriously, it's not just channels, but channels that meet Dominion’s “Statement of Faith” in keeping with our Subscriber Provisions. I started with a few channels on E1 at 119W and Bob Johnson lived up to his word and provided a full slate of faith based channels on E3. Bob proved to be a man worthy of trust so it was a shock when things began to deteriorate.

 

[MellowYBird]

If the four special secular channels (Hallmark, Hallmark Movie Channel, HGTV, and Fox News) are costing Sky Angel, why don't they drop them altogether? Or at least drop them for those that don't wish to receive them.

I don't like the change that Sky Angel has taken, but I tried DishFAMILY and I am back to Sky Angel only. It seems to be the best option out there so far. I just wish they were able to stay with more Christian and Family-Friendly channels.

How do they choose the channels that we receive anyway?

~MYB~

 

[catkoko]

drop 4? fuzzy math for PI channels?

I agree if the "special 4" are too costly, drop them for everyone.

As for the PI channels I think you are doing some fuzzy/new math. if SA doesn't count them, they weren't counted as channels during the inital agreement then the PI channels certainly shouldn't count now1 what next should we count the online guide as a channel? what about DISH info?

Its almost as if some people can not face the fact that SA is NOT being honorable and would rather grasp at straws to justify their actions. Sky angel promised a minimum # of channels and NO additional cost for the life of the subscriber and/or spouse. Nothing has changed that fact.

 

[ShaneLinder]

it's not just channels, but channels that meet Dominion’s “Statement of Faith”

So charging for the secular channels is not the issue because even if they didn't charge for them, they still wouldn't have 32 faith-based channels.

If the four special secular channels (Hallmark, Hallmark Movie Channel, HGTV, and Fox News) are costing Sky Angel, why don't they drop them altogether?

They need these secular channels to attract new subscribers.

 

[elder]

So charging for the secular channels is not the issue because even if they didn't charge for them, they still wouldn't have 32 faith-based channels.

If you thought that to be the only issue you haven't followed very well.

 

[jbmiller]

hi, i'm a lifetime subscriber for 10 years. i bought skyangel for christian programming.
not for secular channels. we don't need secular channels to get subscibers. what we need is better programs on christian channels. take fer example angel 2 the specials
channel. why can't they play christian movies on it 24/7 when there is no specials.
there are alot of good christian movies out there. tbn plays movies
i use to love familynet when they play the old christian movies when it was on skyangel.
i for one like to keep skyangel pure from crappy secular channels.
god bless
john

 

[MellowYBird]

TOTALLY agree with jbmiller!!!!!

~MYB~

 

[Philippians 4:13]

the Bible does say you are not to sue another brother. going to the BBB is just like sueing to me. lovejesus has got some good points.

 

[catkoko]

sky angel bogus response to BBB

After getting a letter from SA saying they would not answer me until they heard from the BBB they have now responded to the BBB. All they said was to "refer to the current TERMS and CONDITIONS" viewable at skyangel.com. They then went on th say that 'IF I HAD A SPECIFIC REQUEST" they will "provide APPROPRIATE resolution". Now my request was already very soecific to leave the special 4 for myself and all lifetime subscribers at no charge as per our LIFETIME agreement. the lifetime agreement would supersede the terms and conditions anyway which are only valid for monthy subscribers!


as for not involving the BBB, I have 2 things to say. 1)SA themselves took DISH to court 2)we have followed biblical mandate, confronting SA then going back with more

I myself now plan on going back yet again, this time with the FLORIDA state ATTORNEY general. Sky angel should not represent themselves as Christian TV if they are not going to act in a christian manner.

 

[ShaneLinder]

I don't think the attorney general is going to tell Sky Angel they cannot call themselves Christians.

I think the BBB is a good way to try and resolve the conflict. If it is not resolve favorably to both parties, that will remain on their record with the BBB for other consumers to see. Then it is time to move on.

 

[elder]

I'll say it again . . .

Probably those who have a concern about legal action are referring to 1Cor 6:1 and following. Consider that when Paul wrote this the first century synagogues had judges. The judge had no power except for reverence for Torah and the conscience of the people. Jewish law based upon Torah was accepted and obeyed because the people accepted that it was righteous. Paul was saying that believers had no business stepping outside the synagogue for resolution of their differences. There is no doubt that such an approach would preferred in any situation today, but we and Sky Angel are not in that first century synagogue where each party is expected to heed to that righteous judge or other tribunal.