Considerations/questions on moving to Hopper

[judyintexas]

We are considering moving from a 622 and 322 to a Hopper system, and I have lots of questions. Here are the current ones.

It is hard to run cable in our home. When we built it we ran coax to possible TV locations throughout the house, terminating in a block in the attic that went to the antenna. When we changed to DirecTV soon after, they had receivers with RF remotes, so we put two of them upstairs just a few feet from the block, but in the living space next to the attic. They connected to a selection of the coax cables and we just carried the remote to whichever TV we were going to watch.

When those receivers were made obsolete by DirecTV they did not have RF-remote-capable receivers. Dish could put the 622 in the built-in audio cabinet next to our new HDTV, which gives us two receivers for it, and put the 322 by the TV in the kitchen, with that TV using the remote 1 (IR) and a distant TV using remote 2 (RF). We don't like this very much because of the heat generated by the 622 in the audio cabinet -- the plan when we designed the audio cabinet was that we could leave the door open when the components were on (listening to music...) and generating heat. Of course, the 622 can heat the room when it is turned off, so now the door is permanently propped partway open with a piece of cardboard. The 322 is also sitting on the kitchen cabinet, not optimal, and we have much less flexibility in TV location.

As I read about the Hopper system with its RF remotes, could we just put the Hoppers and Joeys upstairs near the block where all of the coax is, and make short runs from the block to the Hoppers and Joeys? I envision having two Hoppers, because we have four tuners now and need more (so many more channels carry football games today...) then having one or two Joeys. One Hopper would serve the main TV, and the other Hopper and one or two Joeys would let us have TV in more locations than we have now, especially if the second Hopper and the Joeys can serve two TV's (think I read somewhere that this can be done).

In addition to the general question as to whether I am even understanding the system correctly to think that this could work, I have three detailed questions from reading the posts and installation guides. First, in my plan the Node would be upstairs, pretty much in line and with short runs between the dish and the Hoppers and other components. This probably exceeds the recommended grounding distance, yet the present dish is grounded from the roof, and couldn't the Node use the same ground, or have an adjacent one? Second, I read that if you want to use PIP the Hopper needs to be adjacent to the TV that uses the PIP. Is this true? Is this because the PIP is IR? If so can I use an IR repeater? I would really like to have this Hopper upstairs instead of overheating in the audio cabinet. Third, we didn't install phone lines next to any of the TV locations. We and the cable installer thought at the time (2000) that a TV would not need to use a phone. So, we have the neat devices made in Utah that relay the phone lines over the house wiring to the receivers so Dish won't think we are up to no good. If we can put any components that need phone lines upstairs, it will be easy to get phone lines to them.

Sorry this post is so long, but I would really appreciate advice.

 

[lucky86]

Joeys can not do pip, only the hopper. It doesn't have anything to do with IR.

 

[SomeDishGuy]

If you put Hoppers and Joeys somewhere remote, realize that the video out on the Hopper and Joey is not coax. The Hopper can use HDMI, Red/Green/Blue and RCA output. The Joey can use HDMI and RCA output. There really is zero benefit to having a Hopper or a Joey at someplace other than the TV it is connected to.

The Joey is so small, some people mount them to the TV mounting bracket, if a TV is wall-mounted. It's barely bigger than a paperback novel.

 

[boba]

Hoppers and Joeys do not have RF(ch 3/4) outputs just HDMI & composite on Joey and HDMI, Component & composite on Hoppers. External modulators are needed to run coax to distant TVs coax would not be HD only SD.
PIP uses 2 of the Hoppers tuners.

 

[kwindrem]

For two Hoppers, you need THREE RG-6 2 GHz rated cables from the dish to the node. You need ONE 3 GHz rated RG-6 cable from the node to each Hopper. Joeys need one RG-59 or RG-6 cable from the node. You may also need splitters if you have more than two Joeys. You may find that you have the necessary cabling already.

Depending on your viewing habits, 3 tuners in one Hopper may be sufficient. This is because one tuner can serve up ABC, CBS, NBC and Fox ("the big 4"). This is true any time of the day and whether or not Prime Time Anytime is turned on. The off-air module also gives you an extra tuner for local channels.

Unlike the 622 and 322, each Hopper or Joey serves one TV. If two or more TVs share the outputs of one device, they all see the same program.

The node can be located anywhere (inside or outside). It can serve as the grounding block if located outside. If the node is located inside, the coax cables from the dish must be grounded before they enter the building. In that case, there's no need to ground the node.

Hopper has two "decoders". PIP and sling share the second decoder. PIP would use two tuners as well if viewing live programs.

Hopper consumes a bit less power than a 622, but it's still a good idea to provide an open space for it. Joeys consume considerably less power than a Hopper and has no cooling fan. Many people mount Joeys to the back of their TV to provide them with sufficient cooling and keep them out of site. There's no need to access either Hopper or Joey boxes except for reset so you should be able to find some place to put either. A small cooling fan in your audio cabinet may also be sufficient. You may also be able to build ducting in your audio cabinet so Hopper gets fresh air to it's left side, letting Hopper's internal fan do the work. Your A/V receiver will produce more heat than most other components, so keep Hopper (or Joey) below it in your cabinet. Hopper, like the 622 has a temperature controlled fan, so if the fan is running slowly, it's getting enough cool air. If the fan does not speed up when you close your audio cabinet, Hopper is getting sufficient cool air.

 

[judyintexas]

Thank you to all of you. I understand a little better now. So, let me try again.

Kwindrem, thanks for explaining the grounding and mentioning the decoders. I had completely missed that feature/need. We'll just have to have the coax checked to see if it supports the needed speed. If it was installed in 2000 is it likely to be what we need? We can get however many cables we need from the dish to the node.

When I referred to RF, I meant how the remote communicates with the Hopper. However, if the Hopper/Joeys have no coax out, that doesn't matter and I see why the device needs to be next to the TV.

We have one main HD TV and three smaller SD ones. To start with the smaller ones, I understand that each would have a Joey adjacent to the TV. I would like to be able to move one of these to seldom-used locations, such as the guest room, Is there a setup that would enable me to physically attach the Joey to the TV (someone mentioned this) and move the assembly to the guest room and plug it in to the coax at that location? I understand that something needs to be done at the node to make these connections possible, but if that is done is it possible to move a Joey to a different coax plugin and have it just work? I remember reading about setup, so don't know if this is possible.

With regard to the Hopper that serves the main HDTV, is it acceptable to mount it endwise? Flat against the back of the TV space? Now that TVs are flat screen, and we built the space for a CRT, there is a lot of room behind the TV, but maybe not quite enough to put in a shelf that would accommodate the Hopper flat. Putting the Hopper in the TV space would get the Hopper out of the audio cabinet.

Given that we have only one large TV, and the small TVs are in small spaces, does the second Hopper just go somewhere and serve as a tuner? I do want more than three tuners available to the HDTV. This is where our jams occur. We (I) watch a total of one prime time TV show, so the prime time feature will be turned off. Since this show comes on during football games, I record it and watch it later. I'm sure we will appreciate being able to watch recorded shows on the small TVs once we have that capability. Perhaps we will get another HDTV someday, although we are not bedroom-tv-watchers and much of what we watch is SD. (RFDTV, HRTV -- not the races but the training programs)

Finally (for today) do all/any of these devices need to be connected to a phone line? This will have big implications because it is hard to do. When we built the hard-to-wire house we couldn't imagine anyone wanting to talk on the phone next to a TV.

 

[kwindrem]

We have one main HD TV and three smaller SD ones. To start with the smaller ones, I understand that each would have a Joey adjacent to the TV. I would like to be able to move one of these to seldom-used locations, such as the guest room, Is there a setup that would enable me to physically attach the Joey to the TV (someone mentioned this) and move the assembly to the guest room and plug it in to the coax at that location? I understand that something needs to be done at the node to make these connections possible, but if that is done is it possible to move a Joey to a different coax plugin and have it just work? I remember reading about setup, so don't know if this is possible.

Moving a Joey around the house is easy. Just create drops from the client side of the node (splitters may be necessary) wherever you want to locate the Joey/TV combination. Make sure to terminate the unused drops however.

With regard to the Hopper that serves the main HDTV, is it acceptable to mount it endwise?

As long as you provide sufficient air flow I don't see any reason why you couldn't mount a Hopper with the left end down (air flows left to right). Just make sure it's secure. If it falls over, chances are the hard drive will be toast.

Given that we have only one large TV, and the small TVs are in small spaces, does the second Hopper just go somewhere and serve as a tuner?

The second Hopper generally connects to one of the TVs. It could be used without one but you'd need one additional Joey, so $7 per month more. You do need to connect the second Hopper to a TV at least for configuration but if you put the Hoppers together, using a second HDMI input to your HDTV would provide for that.

Finally (for today) do all/any of these devices need to be connected to a phone line?

A phone line connection is no longer required. An internet connection to one of the Hoppers takes the place of phone line connections.

 

[judyintexas]

Thank you again

Thank you again, Kwindrem.

If we mount a Hopper on the left end we'll be sure it is secure that way!

I hope the Hopper can connect wirelessly to the home Internet. We live in the boonies and have a USB modem plugged in to a router.

 

[lucky86]

A Hopper can connect to WIFI with an external DISH WIFI adapter. The HWS has the WIFI capability built in.