Conflicting information

[highdefjeff]

Yawn.

The OTA locals are going to be better because they're not compressed like DISH locals are. Post 1 the guy states his problem. Post 5 you are tooting your own horn. Post 14 has the guy moving his antenna up higher and gaining more OTA channels than he had in the past and liking them better than compressed locals from DISH.

Post #1 says, "The local channels seemed much more bright but also more grainy. The Dish local was darker and had a softer picture. The local was a good 3 seconds ahead of the Dish. Hopefully when I get the antenna roofmounted and aimed correctly the local channel will come in better because I was not impressed..."

Then in his third post he says, "So how come when I go to a DISH channel like RAVE or Discovery HD does the picture look so much better than the OTA channles."

Post #5 I told him the truth of the situation.

Some tried to discount what I said but, his post #14 says about his local channels, "
Ok just a quick update. Mounted the UHF antenna on the roof and pulled in 29 digital channels. The big surprise is that I am able to receive all of the LA OTA channels. This is a big surprise because I live in the middle of San Diego. The picture is by far the best picture I have seen.... My Wife actually enjoys watching Dancing with Stars on the LA feed....Stunning.. the picture that is.."

So, then, what happened to the grainy and unimpressive local picture to turn it into the best picture "by far" that he had ever seen? It went from lower quality than the Dish picture to "by far" the best picture and "stunning".

It is clear that I gave him the correct advice.

Study the science of signal and you will find the science backs what I've said, and what I've witnessed, and what this poster found, too.

One day you guys will understand, one day...

 

[vegassatellite]

Moving his OTA antenna probably cured things like poor signal quality. Sounds like the guy had issues with things like multipathing, etc., which would have increased the total number of errors in the picture. If his signal to noise ratio was too low then he's not going to get a good picture. If he had something like a 4.0 S/N, he's going to have issues, however, there's no difference between a 11 S/N and a 15 S/N.

You act like someone with a well-tuned 6 food DBS dish is going to have a more visually stunning picture than someone with a 20 inch dish with good S/N figures. Above a minimum threshold, S/N doesn't matter except for those periods where the S/N might be dropped by things like rain cutting down the signal, bringing down the S/N.

 

[Joewee]

One day you guys will understand, one day...

So if I tweak my satellite signal from
90 to 100 signal strength my HD
Signal/Picture will be better?! NOW I
understand perfectly!

 

[highdefjeff]

Moving his OTA antenna probably cured things like poor signal quality. Sounds like the guy had issues with things like multipathing, etc., which would have increased the total number of errors in the picture. If his signal to noise ratio was too low then he's not going to get a good picture.

But wait, don't you guys tell me that digital is digital and the picture quality doesn't vary? Yet you just said what I've been saying. Thanks.

 

[vegassatellite]

But wait, don't you guys tell me that digital is digital and the picture quality doesn't vary? Yet you just said what I've been saying. Thanks.

There's a threshold. You pretty much either have it or you don't, however, there's a small area where the box is trying to recover the picture and it can't overcome the corrupted data, that's when it starts to look like a scratched up DVD. It's also like when you have no bars on a cellphone but the call goes through but the person's voice keeps cutting out. That's the threshold. On a cellphone there's no difference between three bars and five bars. Same thing on a satellite, no difference between a 90 signal and a 100 signal.

BTW, signal to noise ratio is a measurement of quality as opposed to quantity, which is your argument. Having lots of DB doesn't do you much good if you have lots of noise DB in your environment. Don't believe me, shine a police radar at a dish that is getting awesome signal quantity. The raw volume of satellite signal will still be present but the signal to noise ratio will look like garbage. Introduce enough noise and you can trash even the highest raw signal levels. I would rather have a low signal with high S/N than a strong signal with a weak S/N.

 

[Ronnie-]

Yay!!! Jeff is back. And having the SAME argument I might add....

You are correct Vegas (although I think most everyone knew that already)

 

[lakebum431]

Yay!!! Jeff is back. And having the SAME argument I might add....

You are correct Vegas (although I think most everyone knew that already)

It's all he knows how to talk about.

 

[highdefjeff]

There's a threshold. You pretty much either have it or you don't, however, there's a small area where the box is trying to recover the picture and it can't overcome the corrupted data, that's when it starts to look like a scratched up DVD. It's also like when you have no bars on a cellphone but the call goes through but the person's voice keeps cutting out. That's the threshold. On a cellphone there's no difference between three bars and five bars. Same thing on a satellite, no difference between a 90 signal and a 100 signal.

BTW, signal to noise ratio is a measurement of quality as opposed to quantity, which is your argument. Having lots of DB doesn't do you much good if you have lots of noise DB in your environment. Don't believe me, shine a police radar at a dish that is getting awesome signal quantity. The raw volume of satellite signal will still be present but the signal to noise ratio will look like garbage. Introduce enough noise and you can trash even the highest raw signal levels. I would rather have a low signal with high S/N than a strong signal with a weak S/N.

You have put words in my mouth once again. What I say is that signal quality is a function of signal strength and noise, thus signal-to-noise ratio. Since noise is generally a "fixed" quantity, increasing quality of signal is done by increasing signal strength or reducing noise. (You can lower some noise influences but generally the noise in the system is intrinsic to the system and its location.)

BER is generally the same thing translated to the digital arena. "All or nothing" and you either "have it or you don't" are overgeneralizations. If your system exists at the point that you lose signal often or easily, your picture is not as good as it can be.

Digital picture quality does vary and that is what I am saying. Input a higher quality data stream into a system and you get a better result.

I am not saying that if you can make a change from 90 to 100 on your signal (quality) meter that you will see a difference. At that point any difference made would likely be undiscernable to the eye. But if you increased a 20 to a 30, it could make the difference between all or nothing and if you say increased a 30 to a 40, it could make the difference between "poor" picture and "WOW" picture. Visually discernable differences are most likely seen when working with the low end of the signal meter and will depend on how much increase that can be made.

 

[vegassatellite]

So you're saying that a post-FEC picture is going to be different depending on the signal levels and signal quality? If that's the case, why don't you post a minimum S/N necessary for a wow picture off the 129 satellite assuming 7 HD channels per transponder and current FEC rates?

BTW, you hijacked the thread. The post you were answering was about signal levels in relation to overcoming rain fade. Then you had to interject your GODLY WISDOM about signal levels affecting overall picture quality. I guess some people badly need a soapbox for their one-trick pony.

 

[treasureofsouth]

The reciever will not give you the settings for the 1000 or 1000.2 on the point dish screen as of yet by zip code not sure if this will be updated in a future software update or not but the readings that we have been getting on 129 is between 40 - 65 or 70. and we have not had problems. Wish you luck