Condo/Apartment Cable Lock Box Access

[dishcomm]

To DishNetwork install Technicians:

I'm sure you've run into it countless times before. I know I have. The customer is in a high-end condo/apartment that doesn't allow ANY cable run ANYwhere, and absolutely no wall penetrations. The whoe place was pre-wired for every location, except the junction is outside behind a steel lock box. The job could be done in an hour, if only you had access to that junction. But you don't. So you are forced to turn down the installation.

Any thoughts on methods to access these junctions? Keys? Tools?

Or any comments on the legality? Does the cable in the condo/apartment BELONG to the local cable company, or does it belong to the condo/apartement owner?

I hate apartment install asignments..They are a waste of my time..but Dish is focused on completion rates .We are forced to use whatever means necessary to get the jobs done or else Dish pulls work away from us..We are even doing patio/balcony bucket mounts..Trouble calls just waiting to happen..If I get the word from apt mangaemnt that the dish cannot be placed in a common area, I am in the clear..I just no line of sight the job and take a walk..I would rather not do a job that is going to cause trouble calls to go on my record....The intersting part is this..Dish turns these aparment jobs over to us contractors because they don't want their hourly waged techs going out on jobs that either will not go in or will be a problem for them in the future..
As far as the locked cable enclosures are concerned, they are cable company property..They are off limits...MAny times the wiring in the complex was insatlled by the same cable comapny..So that's theirs too.....It works this way..When the complx is under construction the mamagent company has to contract soemone to install the coax..most times it is the local cable outfit that does the job..However, the cable co. makes the owner of the complex sign an agreeement stating that the cable is fo rthe exclusive use of the cable co.....I just ignore the the existing wiring and do what I can to get the job done..If I have to I'll run the cables across the floor and other sloppy work that I object to..But I don't have many choices...I cannot do anything tot the unit itself so I am forced to do what I consider substandard meatball work..

 

[dishcomm]

To DishNetwork install Technicians:

I'm sure you've run into it countless times before. I know I have. The customer is in a high-end condo/apartment that doesn't allow ANY cable run ANYwhere, and absolutely no wall penetrations. The whoe place was pre-wired for every location, except the junction is outside behind a steel lock box. The job could be done in an hour, if only you had access to that junction. But you don't. So you are forced to turn down the installation.

Any thoughts on methods to access these junctions? Keys? Tools?

Or any comments on the legality? Does the cable in the condo/apartment BELONG to the local cable company, or does it belong to the condo/apartement owner?

BTW condos and town homes are a different story..That plastic subscriber box and the wiring in the unit is the same as a single family home...I use it all the time..No worries there...In those cases it ususally the builder that provided the coax wiring in the condo building....Now if the unit is a townhome, the owner owns the exterior of the part of the building that surrounds his living space...I always ask the cust how the unit is deeded...

 

[rcdallas]

I hate apartment install asignments..They are a waste of my time..but Dish is focused on completion rates .We are forced to use whatever means necessary to get the jobs done or else Dish pulls work away from us..We are even doing patio/balcony bucket mounts..Trouble calls just waiting to happen..If I get the word from apt mangaemnt that the dish cannot be placed in a common area, I am in the clear..I just no line of sight the job and take a walk..I would rather not do a job that is going to cause trouble calls to go on my record....The intersting part is this..Dish turns these aparment jobs over to us contractors because they don't want their hourly waged techs going out on jobs that either will not go in or will be a problem for them in the future..

Hey now I get apartment jobs all the time as well - I don't know how it is in your area but we get them as well and I hate them. I've heard of the bucket mounts, never will I do one.

If the apartment does go through it's nothing more then a hack job at that.

I've heard of a data base being created for MDU's with all the pertinant information in there, I've yet to see it.

Dish should be giving kick backs to MDU developments so we can have a central dish to feed all the units like the cable co.

 

[CablerMN]

THe thing to keep in mind - The cable company does not own the wire unless they ran it, and even then, only if they have an exclusive right of entry contract with the building. Without such a contract, once the wire is in place it becomes the property of the builing/condo owner.

Also - in most cases that ROE must be filed with the local municipality/county/et al; so it is part of the public record and you don't have to *rely* on the MSO's honesty or the building owners recollection with regards to cable ownership.

 

[dishcomm]

Hey now I get apartment jobs all the time as well - I don't know how it is in your area but we get them as well and I hate them. I've heard of the bucket mounts, never will I do one.

If the apartment does go through it's nothing more then a hack job at that.

I've heard of a data base being created for MDU's with all the pertinant information in there, I've yet to see it.

Dish should be giving kick backs to MDU developments so we can have a central dish to feed all the units like the cable co.

they suck..I hate 'em too...And you're right about the hack jobs..But Dish feels that they would be leaving a market untouched if they didn't sell to apartment renters.
Fine..But those jobs should be going to the Dish compnay techs...They are hourly..Apt jobs cost memoney becuase many do not go in...it's bullshit1

SOme of the people are jerks about it when you tell them it won't go..They get all salty..i tell tyhem all the same thing..Get a waiver from the manager to put your dish out int he middle of the gras area 100 ft away and we'll be back out...SOme go as far as to call Dish and complain..Let them..I don't care....
If never got another apt install I wouldn't complain...

 

[ZandarKoad]

I love apartments. ESCPECIALLY those that have pre-run cabling. I'm slowing amassing an assortment of keys and tools to open any and every cable box in existance. One day I'll be the guy everyone calls to get apartments installed. Then I'll put up ONE (maybe two for 61.5) dish(es), run the cables to the junction, then split it all from there using high frequency splitters and DP34s. From that day forward, the apartment owner/manager will LOVE me, and send every tenant who wants Dishnetwork service my way. It will be an EASY install and a commission for making the sale!

Zzzzzzzz.... <snort> Guaaf! Whaa? Hrmmm. I just had a wonderful dream ...

 

[webbydude]

Zzzzzzzz.... <snort> Guaaf! Whaa? Hrmmm. I just had a wonderful dream ...

ROFL!! You *almost* made me cringe...until that last bit.

Thanks for making my night...LOL

 

[dishcomm]

I love apartments. ESCPECIALLY those that have pre-run cabling. I'm slowing amassing an assortment of keys and tools to open any and every cable box in existance. One day I'll be the guy everyone calls to get apartments installed. Then I'll put up ONE (maybe two for 61.5) dish(es), run the cables to the junction, then split it all from there using high frequency splitters and DP34s. From that day forward, the apartment owner/manager will LOVE me, and send every tenant who wants Dishnetwork service my way. It will be an EASY install and a commission for making the sale!

Zzzzzzzz.... <snort> Guaaf! Whaa? Hrmmm. I just had a wonderful dream ...

Good..You can do my apt installs..Yer welcome to them.

 

[webbydude]

I'm with Zander on this. If you can get over the hump with whatever landlord restrictions, most apartment installs are a piece of cake.

Not to mention a lot of my service calls come from apartment mishaps. Vandals. Landscapers. Etc. Easy, easy, easy money.

 

[chadzx11]

Here are some pix of the worst apartment install I ever ran across. Superdish on a balcony rail, installed by a dish inhouse hack (as a group we were kicking back most if not all apartment installs, just on the basis of not being able to properly ground them). As soon as I got there and saw this, I called the "boss" and called Bullsh!t. There is no way this should have EVER been installed. Excuse the crappiness of the photos, they were taken with my phone. There are no "after" photos because it should not have been installed anyway. A tree was begining to be a problem. I had to realign this because the rail on top of the 1x1's wouldn't support the SUPER DISH. One of the major clues about who installed it is that metal support under the foot. No contractor around here ever spent the money for those things, just DNS.

 

[rcdallas]

That's an interesting way to use a fascia mount. I can say those were definately DNS fittings on there... the effort using a ground block was impressive.

 

[dishcomm]

I'm with Zander on this. If you can get over the hump with whatever landlord restrictions, most apartment installs are a piece of cake.

Not to mention a lot of my service calls come from apartment mishaps. Vandals. Landscapers. Etc. Easy, easy, easy money.

thats a big if....Most complexes in my area are newer..Ther are a few large management companies that have pretty strict rules..Most are identical..They allow the dish to be placed only within the living or exclusive use area of the tennant. also most only allow non permanent placement of the dish and prohibit drilling.....And they SPECIFICALLY prohibit entry into cable tv network equipment and of course that includes the cable tv building terminals
However there are several complexes that don't give a hoot where you put the thing or drill holes..Those are easy but we do very few of these because most of the tennants are low income or maybe jobless living off welfare and of course these are in high crime areas that I refuse to go into..

 

[dishcomm]

Here are some pix of the worst apartment install I ever ran across. Superdish on a balcony rail, installed by a dish inhouse hack (as a group we were kicking back most if not all apartment installs, just on the basis of not being able to properly ground them). As soon as I got there and saw this, I called the "boss" and called Bullsh!t. There is no way this should have EVER been installed. Excuse the crappiness of the photos, they were taken with my phone. There are no "after" photos because it should not have been installed anyway. A tree was begining to be a problem. I had to realign this because the rail on top of the 1x1's wouldn't support the SUPER DISH. One of the major clues about who installed it is that metal support under the foot. No contractor around here ever spent the money for those things, just DNS.

This is an example with DNS tech's work that I have seen in this area..The galling part of this is I know first hand how their training program works and how long these guys train(4 weeks)..
This is also what happens when you try to pay someone $11.50 an hour to do a skilled trade type job such as what we do...DNSC has very high turnover in their ranks..They are constantly running ads lookling for new techs....
Anyway, in the long run Dish does not care about the quality of the work..They care about numbers..They want new connects activated and all jobs closed.The rest is just details..BUT, If a tech squeezes In a job like this and it gets QC'd guess what, they flame the tech for putting it in..it's a sh*t system and everybody knows it..There is another contractor in this area that does real sh*t work too..We get their trouble calls all the time. Dish has told us we have to complete them. But we have found ways to reject these non pay jobs..Dish would also like us to bring all jobs to specs even if they are not ours...But none of do..I just get he tv working and leave detailed notes on the account ..Dish also states that they have a last person there policy..In other words, if I so much as change a fitting and close the W/O I am responsible for that entire job..Bull sh*t...Again, we put notes on the account to cover our selves...I am not going around fixing other techs crummy work or cust self install garbage....Why?. Because I don't get paid for it..

 

[webbydude]

.....And they SPECIFICALLY prohibit entry into cable tv network equipment and of course that includes the cable tv building terminals

Too funny you mention that. Several of us at the RSP I work with have had that very issue with a specific "habitat for humanity" condo complex. They phrase the landlord restrictions where it doesn't say "you can't have a dish", but it's pretty damn close to it. Mounting of a dish is prohibited. Not allowed to use existing cable. And no drilling.

The non usage of existing cable is the deal breaker. I even went so far as to ask the resident manager, "WTF!?" She explained that Time Warner *told* her since they ran the lines during the construction of the condos, they own them. I calmly explained that the wiring isn't owned by anyone other than the property owner. Otherwise you would have the same issue with the exisiting electric, plumbing, phone, etc. My plea fell on deaf ears. Something to the effect, "oh, well you're just one person...they're a huge company. Who should I believe?" was uttered. Unbelievable.

 

[webbydude]

..Dish also states that they have a last person there policy..In other words, if I so much as change a fitting and close the W/O I am responsible for that entire job..Bull sh*t...Again, we put notes on the account to cover our selves...I am not going around fixing other techs crummy work or cust self install garbage....Why?. Because I don't get paid for it..

Yes, I've tried the "putting it in the notes" routine. Waaay too many times. And it still bites me in the butt whenever a troublecall shows up that the notes SHOULD have protected me from. You hate to walk away from a job...hell, you hate to walk away from money, let's put it that way. But what are you going to do? It's a crap shoot in those instances. As someone stated earlier, apartment jobs are most often a hack. Usually...*cough, cough*...the RSP I work with recognizes these situations and tries to help us plead our case out to Dish in situations like that.

THOSE issues aside, I still like them due to the previous reasons stated. Vandalizm is a big thing in Akron. A huge part of my customer base in Akron apartments are Middle-eastern/Arabic. And with the way things are going globally, some yayhoo will f*** with a system, all in the name of patriotism.

 

[ZandarKoad]

Today: All my work was apartment condo dishmovers/reconnects. Three of them.

The first one had no LOS from his (condo) property (no building attachments allowed of course), and he's going to call me back after he gets ahold of three of his neighbors for their permission to install the dish on, and run cable accross, their property (yeah right).

The second one (apartment, 2nd story) had a north facing covered balcony and needed a 61.5 install. No LOS at ALL, no chance. BUT DANGIT I DID IT ANYWAY. It took me three hours: I bolted three two-by-fours to his 6" x 6" verticle balcony support beam (after a Menards run). The 2x4's stuck out away from his balcony far enough for me to bolt a 5' pole to it which stuck up above his roof line. PRESTO. THE MIRACLE WORKER STRIKES AGAIN. Big time hack work. And boy am I glad I did it. It's the only money I'll make today. Charged him $50 extra for the hardware and to mirror his 311's output to 2 TVs. Heh. He gave me $60 cause he was so happy I made it work despite the no LOS. (MY KINGDOM FOR A CAMERA!!! You'd love it.) In the end, the friggin pole was dead plumb, rock solid, and he had signal strengths in the 120's for TP 12 off 61.5. 100's everywhere else. ... What's a 'ground'?

The NEXT job was an apartment on the north side of the building that never showed up or called despite me calling her 3 times so far over a 5 hour period. The account notes say she'll be there after 2:00PM. I got there at 3:00PM and door tagged it.

In the end, IMHO, if you're going to hack it, you'd best be prepaired to stand behind it's functionality for the duration of the 12 months (and beyond).

 

[webbydude]

Ah yes...the things we do for love (or money, in this case).

Pretty good idea with the 61.5 install. Knowing my luck, it would've been a 2nd story install...out of 6 story building

 

[dishcomm]

Too funny you mention that. Several of us at the RSP I work with have had that very issue with a specific "habitat for humanity" condo complex. They phrase the landlord restrictions where it doesn't say "you can't have a dish", but it's pretty damn close to it. Mounting of a dish is prohibited. Not allowed to use existing cable. And no drilling.

The non usage of existing cable is the deal breaker. I even went so far as to ask the resident manager, "WTF!?" She explained that Time Warner *told* her since they ran the lines during the construction of the condos, they own them. I calmly explained that the wiring isn't owned by anyone other than the property owner. Otherwise you would have the same issue with the exisiting electric, plumbing, phone, etc. My plea fell on deaf ears. Something to the effect, "oh, well you're just one person...they're a huge company. Who should I believe?" was uttered. Unbelievable.

Yep...Ok here's the long and the short of the wiring of apt complexes....Keep in mind that large cable operators are famous for this...
Time Warner will make bids to apartment complex mgmts or the builder to contract the structured wiring..Since TW does phone,data,and tv they can get the whole thing done..But he caveat is the owner/mgmt co or other applicable agent must sign an exclusivity agreement..Not only that, TW maintains ownership of the interior wiring..Basically ,I can't touch it..
Now, if the the builder of said complex ran the wiring, it's open season..But try getting a dopey cover worked over stressed and underpaid apt rental mgr to even come close to being able to get an answer...I just go int he office and ask about restrictions and follow them.If the job cannot go because of the restrictions I walk...If the cust bitches, I tell them I am not making this decision, your mgr is..Talk to them....On a few occasions the cust wanted me to hang around while they argue with the mgr...My response is "your job is not the only one i have today. Even if it was, I am not obligated to be a part of negotiations that I have nothing to do with. This is between you and the mgr"..Gotta go..And that's that

 

[Wylwrk]

Not disagreeing with you one bit... the following is just an opinion.

DNS techs think the same thing about retail/sub contractors whether it's true or not.

The truth is there isn't much difference between the two really... it's the indiviual that decides the quality of the install whether he/she is a sub or DNS installer.

This is an example with DNS tech's work that I have seen in this area..The galling part of this is I know first hand how their training program works and how long these guys train(4 weeks)..
This is also what happens when you try to pay someone $11.50 an hour to do a skilled trade type job such as what we do...DNSC has very high turnover in their ranks..They are constantly running ads lookling for new techs....
Anyway, in the long run Dish does not care about the quality of the work..They care about numbers..They want new connects activated and all jobs closed.The rest is just details..BUT, If a tech squeezes In a job like this and it gets QC'd guess what, they flame the tech for putting it in..it's a sh*t system and everybody knows it..There is another contractor in this area that does real sh*t work too..We get their trouble calls all the time. Dish has told us we have to complete them. But we have found ways to reject these non pay jobs..Dish would also like us to bring all jobs to specs even if they are not ours...But none of do..I just get he tv working and leave detailed notes on the account ..Dish also states that they have a last person there policy..In other words, if I so much as change a fitting and close the W/O I am responsible for that entire job..Bull sh*t...Again, we put notes on the account to cover our selves...I am not going around fixing other techs crummy work or cust self install garbage....Why?. Because I don't get paid for it..

 

[webbydude]

Not disagreeing with you one bit... the following is just an opinion.

DNS techs think the same thing about retail/sub contractors whether it's true or not.

The truth is there isn't much difference between the two really... it's the indiviual that decides the quality of the install whether he/she is a sub or DNS installer.

I think the issue retailers/contractors have with DNS is the low hourly rates. If DNS actually paid their installers better, a whole lot of them would care more. I mean...c'mon, $11 or $12 hour? Awfully hard to put your all into a job at those rates

By the same token, it's awfully easy for retailers/contractors to have the "hook-n-book" mentality. Even more so on days when you are completely swamped with 3 or 4, 4-room installs. Granted, I may not be the fastest installer, but I would dare say the average tech is going to take 2 or 3 hours for a 4-roomer; a good part of that is customer education or correcting botched workorders.