Computer memory question

[harshness]

If you built computer in the 80's which I find hard to believe, all computers back then were proprietary with 8088 XT motherboards, and the 286's didn't come out late 80's early 90's.

You have made the embarrassing assumption that all DIY computers were necessarily Pee Cees (aka "IBM compatibles"). That is absolutely not the case. Your timeline is also around 8-10 years off as are some other assumptions about the state-of-the-art back when.

The first Pee Cee that I laid hands on was no-name non-proprietary model. It featured 128KB of RAM and dual 5.25" floppies. This was some time in the 1982-83 range. As I recall, the budget demanded that the spreadsheet software would have to come in a second budget cycle. One camp wanted Visicalc because that what we ran on the Apple /// but the other camp wanted 1-2-3 because that was the "benchmark" of the day. Word processing would remain on the Wang multiuser system.

I can't remember specifically why it was purchased but I don't recall that anyone used it productively while I was there in favor of Visicalc on Apple /// with a 5MB hard drive (running Apple Pascal as the DOS) and some dialup timesharing computers.

The PC debuted in 1981.

The AT was introduced in 1984 featuring a higher base clock speed and an 80286 CPU and a 16 bit bus (versus the 8 bit limit of the 8088).

The XT came out somewhere in between the IBM PC and the AT and the difference was an included hard drive and typically more RAM. The no-name models (and a few of the name brand models) often had an 8MHz turbo option.

 

[harshness]

My first computer was in 1989, a Tandy 1000sl with an 8088 processor.

The Tandy 1000SL (and TL) featured the slightly more advanced 8086 CPU.

 

[Comptech]

I remember building some high end Cyrix PC in the early to mid 90's! Showing my age now.

 

[Comptech]

If i remember right it was a competion between them and a AMD K-5 to see who could overheat the quicker.

 

[EatMyVolts]

The XT came out somewhere in between the IBM PC and the AT and the difference was an included hard drive and typically more RAM. The no-name models (and a few of the name brand models) often had an 8MHz turbo option.

You just took me way back with the turbo button. I remember putting 286's together running Xenix for three user accounting systems. All hail the mighty command line.

 

[FTA4PA]

If you built computer in the 80's which I find hard to believe, all computers back then were proprietary with 8088 XT motherboards, and the 286's didn't come out late 80's early 90's. I have built and sold over 100 custom built computer back in the 90's up to the early 2000's so I know a little about builting and how to config a computer.

I built them too. 286 processors were not released in the late 80s/early 90s as you say. First release of the 286 was in February of 1982. 386 processors were released in 1985 so 286s were obviously already being phased out by the late 80s/early 90s.

https://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/80286/index.html

https://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/80386/index.html

 

[raoul5788]

The Tandy 1000SL (and TL) featured the slightly more advanced 8086 CPU.

I just checked it (yes I still have the cpu) and it's an 8086 from 1978.

 

[Larry1]

I just checked it (yes I still have the cpu) and it's an 8086 from 1978.

I always remember my friends Tandy 1000 playing Space Quest... His Talked... it said "Where am I" at the start and my Adlib sound card did not.

After soldering togther my first XT motherboard, then troubleshooting to find out why it did not work, the big upgrade was installing a NEC V20 inplace of the 8088
It was certainly fun times. I enjoyed going to the Computer fests and seeing what was new, as well as buying a few items.

 

[Need2learn]

You have made the embarrassing assumption that all DIY computers were necessarily Pee Cees (aka "IBM compatibles"). That is absolutely not the case. Your timeline is also around 8-10 years off as are some other assumptions about the state-of-the-art back when.

The first Pee Cee that I laid hands on was no-name non-proprietary model. It featured 128KB of RAM and dual 5.25" floppies. This was some time in the 1982-83 range. As I recall, the budget demanded that the spreadsheet software would have to come in a second budget cycle. One camp wanted Visicalc because that what we ran on the Apple /// but the other camp wanted 1-2-3 because that was the "benchmark" of the day. Word processing would remain on the Wang multiuser system.

I can't remember specifically why it was purchased but I don't recall that anyone used it productively while I was there in favor of Visicalc on Apple /// with a 5MB hard drive (running Apple Pascal as the DOS) and some dialup timesharing computers.

The PC debuted in 1981.

The AT was introduced in 1984 featuring a higher base clock speed and an 80286 CPU and a 16 bit bus (versus the 8 bit limit of the 8088).

The XT came out somewhere in between the IBM PC and the AT and the difference was an included hard drive and typically more RAM. The no-name models (and a few of the name brand models) often had an 8MHz turbo option.

Hellooo if that is the case what heck would that have to what we are talking about now... course they had old TANDY computer in the 80's but no one started building computers until around 1990, everything was soldered to the motherboard back then, there was no building UNTIL THE IMB CLONES CAME OUT PERIOD.

 

[Need2learn]

The Tandy 1000SL (and TL) featured the slightly more advanced 8086 CPU.

You are right and there was NO Building to that everything was proprietary, now the early 90's when IBM clones came out, we use have the computer warehouse big catalogs and the computer shows where you could buy parts and but your computer together then.

 

[Comptech]

I always remember my friends Tandy 1000 playing Space Quest... His Talked... it said "Where am I" at the start and my Adlib sound card did not.

After soldering togther my first XT motherboard, then troubleshooting to find out why it did not work, the big upgrade was installing a NEC V20 inplace of the 8088
It was certainly fun times. I enjoyed going to the Computer fests and seeing what was new, as well as buying a few items.

Is that you Lesiure Suit Larry?

 

[rvvaquero]

If you built computer in the 80's which I find hard to believe, all computers back then were proprietary with 8088 XT motherboards, and the 286's didn't come out late 80's early 90's. I have built and sold over 100 custom built computer back in the 90's up to the early 2000's so I know a little about builting and how to config a computer.

I'm not going to get into a pissing match with you over what I've done in the past. I'll be more than willing to concede to your superior knowledge. I simply was pointing out that I know how to get into the bios, I've posted multiple photos of the dumbed down bios on this Acer computer in my posts. If you can tell me how to adjust the memory speed on it, I'll be more than grateful.

 

[navychop]

no one started building computers until around 1990, everything was soldered to the motherboard back then, there was no building UNTIL THE IMB CLONES CAME OUT PERIOD.

Uhh- NO. Many odd brands were out. Mostly S100 bus systems, but Heathkit was popular, with its own bus.

The IBM PC came out in 1981. The Big Boys at IBM thought it was a fad, gave it low priority, and exiled the project and team to FL. They figured maybe 250,000 would sell. No point bothering to patent the bus. Oh, well. That you for that blunder.

 

[Need2learn]

Uhh- NO. Many odd brands were out. Mostly S100 bus systems, but Heathkit was popular, with its own bus.

The IBM PC came out in 1981. The Big Boys at IBM thought it was a fad, gave it low priority, and exiled the project and team to FL. They figured maybe 250,000 would sell. No point bothering to patent the bus. Oh, well. That you for that blunder.

Wrong in 1986 IBM came out with the 286, the clones for IBM hardware NOT SOFTWARE WERE NOT available into the early 90's. Now the earlier XT 8088 were all proprietary with every soldered on the motherboard. The problem you would had building a computer back then was the POWER SUPPLY they were NOT universal then everything else was proprietary meaning you have to basically buy the whole computer and maybe at a monitor or a disk drive that is all.

I work in IT for over 20 yrs for the federal government I have seen the generation of computers. Check your years, remember the internet was not available to the public to around the same time, in order to get on the internet back then you had to go through a College University or Military Base.

 

[TheKrell]

Check your years, remember the internet was not available to the public to around the same time, in order to get on the internet back then you had to go through a College University or Military Base.

And before that there was CompuServe, which was initially a type of bulletin-board system you had to dial into. They invented a type of online chat called CB Simulator, and before that email, but only among members.

About CompuServe"

 

[harshness]

Hellooo if that is the case what heck would that have to what we are talking about now... course they had old TANDY computer in the 80's but no one started building computers until around 1990, everything was soldered to the motherboard back then, there was no building UNTIL THE IMB CLONES CAME OUT PERIOD.

You're really digging a hole for yourself with your continued attempts at rewriting history. Early computers had sockets for all of the chips as the chips couldn't tolerate the heat of soldering. Resistors, capacitors and coils were often soldered directly if there was a printed circuit board. You haven't lived until you've seen a computer built with wire-wrapping. Kit computers have been around since the 70s for the relatively hard core hobbyist.

List of early microcomputers - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Computer Shopper was one of the go-to resources for DIY and it debuted in 1979. Back then the 5.25" floppy disc had substantially replaced the 8" floppy in popular use.

IBM Compatibles weren't the first consumer-assembled computers by a long shot and they were on the scene well before the early 90s. I remember installing an RG59 coax cable networking card in a home-built XT in 1988. It was connected to a Leading Edge branded XT-class computer (probably a Model D) located about 40' away.

You are wrong on many counts and before you respond further, you should really do some digging into the facts.

 

[TheKrell]

I remember installing an RG59 coax cable networking card in a home-built XT in 1988.

That was called Thinwire Ethernet, and also "cheapernet" and 10base2. Amazingly enough, we thought 10Mbps broadcast Ethernet was really zippy back in the day. It was the fastest we had experienced. I moved my company from McLean to Vienna back in the day. I even had our offices wired for Thinwire Ethernet. What a mistake that was! Anybody could mess up the daisy chain coax and everybody would get disconnected. So much for my attempt to avoid serial terminal lines.

You haven't lived until you've seen a computer built with wire-wrapping.

Hey don't knock it. I used to fabricate my own PC boards requiring noxious chemicals, and it took forever even for a trivial circuit with discrete components. So did point-to-pont soldering all the interconnections to those small-scale IC sockets w/.1" pins. In contrast, I built 2 clocks out of SSI's and Nixie tubes (remember those?) in record time.

Huh. I just looked up "SSI" and I see that means "small scale integration" of fewer than 10 transistors. By that measure, I only used MSIs and LSIs.

 

[navychop]

Early microcomputers used different OSes, as I mentioned before. IBM was late to the game, but they redefined it. Brought a new, more practical bus standard, as well as DOS. Plenty of us were building microcomputers of various flavors and very limited s/w compatibility between brands or even models. CP/M was designed to alleviate that, with a “better” hardware interface with standard calls from s/w being translated into what the h/w needed. Problem was, a new CP/M had to be written for each new set of incompatible h/w. IBM set standards that have pretty much been followed ever since.

My first electronic computer used a 1802 CPU. The Heathkits I built used Z80s, as did many others. We got a lot of programming done well before the IBM PC and it’s clones.

 

[harshness]

That was called Thinwire Ethernet, and also "cheapernet" and 10base2.

The system I was using was based on 75 ohm RG59 with F connectors. 10base2 was based on 50 ohm RG58 with BNC connectors.

I used a couple of hubs connected via 10base2 later on to make a run across the yard that Cat5 couldn't sustain.

 

[harshness]

Early microcomputers used different OSes, as I mentioned before. IBM was late to the game, but they redefined it.

Remembering that IBM bought PC DOS from Microsoft who weaseled it out of Seattle Computer Products. Seattle DOS was somewhat of an IP skirting workalike of Digital Research's CP/M-86.

Brought a new, more practical bus standard, as well as DOS.

S100 was plenty practical and it was 16 bit ten years before IBM would debut the AT bus. Its downfall was that it was physically quite large and didn't have the IBM name behind it.

Incidently, Seattle DOS was written for SCP's S100 bus boards.