Compression F Connectors w/O-Ring; Does it really make a difference?
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What did he use? As long as they are compression fittings of some sort, you're ok. Also, make sure they have a proper drip loop and do your best to keep them out of the weather.
If they are crimped fitting and out in the open, I would call up and raise hell. If they are out of the weather with a proper drip loop, they will last awhile. I personally would not tolerate any crimp fitting anywhere in the house.
If they are crimped fitting and out in the open, I would call up and raise hell. If they are out of the weather with a proper drip loop, they will last awhile. I personally would not tolerate any crimp fitting anywhere in the house.
Really good question!
DirecTV "approves" a compression fitting that uses a different principle. The compression fitting grips into the side of the cable and makes a very strong and waterproof seal without the need for an "O" ring or gel. I don't like them because they are about $.25 each.
The "F" connector with gel & "O" ring is my favorite....because they work well and are about $.09 each. I have used thousands of these over many years and have not discovered failures.
As it is with many mechanical things, it is the correct application of the materials that makes the difference. The main reason for failure of the compression fitting is the failure to compress the fitting with the correct tool. The other failure is incorrect splicing of the cable so some wire scrap shorts the end of the cable.
The main reason for the failure of the "F" fitting is the variable diameter of cable made by different manufacturers. If the cable is too thin the tool will not crimp the fitting correctly. Likewise "F" fittings that are too big will not correctly slide into the cable end or crimp correctly. These also need to be spliced correctly and crimped to avoid a defect.
I might add that you really do need good light to cut fittings to avoid wire scrap in the fitting. They continue to schedule work after dark and it gets done correctly most of the time.
I have never seen a comparison between a correctly compressed compression fitting and a correctly cut "F" fitting with "O" ring & gel. I think the difference is that a new tech will have a better chance getting the compression fitting to work correctly with little training.
There is a debate about the use of the gel to waterproof and lubricate the fitting threads. Also the use of various kinds of boots to keep water out continue to be accepted and rejected.
Part of a correct fitting use must be a drip loop / service loop to keep water from flowing into the fitting. I like using an enclosure or "drop box" like the phone companies but...cost considerations dumped these.
Good question!
Joe
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Most installers are required to use a specific brand of connector.
Most of what is used in these parts is PPC's and they do not have the O ring in the bottom.
I personally don't think PPC's are the best but I am not allowed to use anything else.
However, they are still a good connector. We are required to use weather boots with these which help to keep moisture out.
Of course the rules could be different in your area.
Regardless, I would not worry about if there is an O ring inside.
UPDATE:
On the Directv installer web site there is a tech bullitin about a second approved compression fitting. The benefit cited was a universal fit for all RG6 including the quad 4 & (I think) RG59.
In my CATV days I was paid by one system to recut all fittings and replace the "F" connector with a snap-n seal with gel and a boot TO KEEP WATER OUT OF THE FITTINGS. Then, a few exits around the Washington D.C. beltway a different system paid to remove the boots and add gel to "F" connectors TO KEEP THE WATER OUT OF THE FITTINGS.
Someone had to be wrong...go figure!
Joe
Unfortunately we are still limited to PPC EX6XL's
Even the EX6's (just shorter) and the WEX6XL's (ones with weather boots built in) are not approved (however they usually won't fail for these).
There was a rumor a while ago that we would have another connector choice, but I never saw it.
As far as who is right, right has nothing to do with it.
It has to do with who is paying the company to use their materials.
You also have a bunch of corporate suits who wouldn't know the difference between a compression connector and a crimp connector making the rules.
Here is the other kicker to it.
We are supposed to buy all our PPC EX6XL's through mastec.
Why, because they profit off it.
Even the EX6's (just shorter) and the WEX6XL's (ones with weather boots built in) are not approved (however they usually won't fail for these).
There was a rumor a while ago that we would have another connector choice, but I never saw it.
As far as who is right, right has nothing to do with it.
It has to do with who is paying the company to use their materials.
You also have a bunch of corporate suits who wouldn't know the difference between a compression connector and a crimp connector making the rules.
Here is the other kicker to it.
We are supposed to buy all our PPC EX6XL's through mastec.
Why, because they profit off it.
Im a pretty big fan of EX6XL's. I don't think i've ever seen signs of corrosion from these, unlike many of the others out there....outside of bad cabling or bad crimp job. The only negative thing about EX6's is that its very very difficult to get them onto plenum cable.
First of all, "F" is the name of the connector type, regardless of the cable type or installation style. It doesn't matter if it is crimped onto RG-6, a compression fitting on RG-11, or a Home Depot "twister" on RG-59 - if it is used for cable or satellite TV, it is an "F" connector. Just had to get that out of the way..
That said, you will never get a better 3-step connector than compression. By design, when you compress the ring, they develop a watertight seal where the cable enters the connector. The same can not be said for crimp connections. To achieve the same degree of watertightness, you have to fill the cable end with gel before inserting the cable. Reason is the hex crimp, no matter how tight you get it, always has open corners where water can seep in. This is even visible on 'factory made' cables where the crimps are made by hydraulic press.
As far as the connection itself, if it is wrench-tight, water can't get in. The purpose of the O ring is so create a seal at hand-tight so it can be easily disconnected. Since these connections under normal circumstances will never need to be touched, I see no reason to use them.
Boots do nothing except to try to keep the outside of the connector from oxidizing. IMHO they do exactly the opposite because they are never completely watertight, so all they do is hold water in for a lot longer than the connector would have been exposed to if the boot weren't there.
The purpose of the O ring is/was to keep water from coming into the connector thru the metal threads on which are you screwing that said connector ONTO. (ground block, splitter, switch, etc.) The compression part of the connector is NOT going to stop this from happening, period. Problem even on those O rings, while it does keep the water from reaching the inner conductor, it IS still allowing the water to get inside those threads & start the corrosion process from inside. You can sit there all day & "wrench tighten" a connector onto an exposed outside ground block or splitter - water WILL still get around & into those threads anyway.
THAT is why almost every cable co also uses coax seals/grommets on outside connections, so that you stop the water BEFORE it even gets into those threads. DirecTV even pre-installs these now on ALL their outside devices now, such as muti-switches, SWM splitters, & even now the LNB's themselves.
a1Components - Skywalker Signature Series 1/2" Rubber Grommets, qty100
Why DO you think all these companies went to these seals, if "wrench tightening" itself was adequate?
You keep the water out & the inside will normally stay corrosion free for years. They are NOT the same as those boots you speak of & yes, those do hurt more than help.
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Lets face it, there is a lot of opinions and misinformation about what works and what is the best connector on the market.
IMO there is really no better connector out side then a compression connector as it is the only type that offers a true weather seal that will stand the test of time.
However, I have rolled up on many jobs that where the connectors were crimp style and exposed for 10 years without fail and still looked pretty decent on the inside. (of course, I still change these). As far as which one(s) are best, I think they are all pretty sufficient and ill do a proper job (I still personally like snap seals the best though).
As far as indoor use goes, I honestly don't think it matters if it is a compression or crimp style as weather will never affect these.
If you understand how the signal bounces between the outside of the center conductor and foil shield around the dielectric and the neither type changes the shape of either when installed properly, they are both fine. The only difference in the two when installed properly is the weather seal.
Now, you have twist on available too and IMO these are total junk for indoor and outdoor use as it smashes and twists the dielectric.
I honestly can never figure out why an electrician would use these either as they are much more expensive then the crimp ones and no where near as good.
Sure, the tools cost money but with the money saved, you could buy the tools.
IMO there is really no better connector out side then a compression connector as it is the only type that offers a true weather seal that will stand the test of time.
However, I have rolled up on many jobs that where the connectors were crimp style and exposed for 10 years without fail and still looked pretty decent on the inside. (of course, I still change these). As far as which one(s) are best, I think they are all pretty sufficient and ill do a proper job (I still personally like snap seals the best though).
As far as indoor use goes, I honestly don't think it matters if it is a compression or crimp style as weather will never affect these.
If you understand how the signal bounces between the outside of the center conductor and foil shield around the dielectric and the neither type changes the shape of either when installed properly, they are both fine. The only difference in the two when installed properly is the weather seal.
Now, you have twist on available too and IMO these are total junk for indoor and outdoor use as it smashes and twists the dielectric.
I honestly can never figure out why an electrician would use these either as they are much more expensive then the crimp ones and no where near as good.
Sure, the tools cost money but with the money saved, you could buy the tools.
When I said "boots" in an earlier post, I was referring to the grommets that are on the ground blocks, switches, and splitters.
Don't know if it is the popper name but it is what we call them at the shop and what they are called QC forms.
Oh, I didn't see JM was quoting you - I thought he was talking about these things that used to be used years ago:
Amazon.com: RADIO SHACK RADIOSHACK 278-1658 WEATHER RESISTANT COAX BOOT CONNECTOR USE WITH RG59, RG6, RG6/QS COAX CABLE, "f" AND MANY OTHER RF TYPE CONNECTORS
For me, "boots" totally enclose the connector - the "grommets" simply seal the (inner) connector threads from moisture, which is what you ultimately want.
And even though I have a supply of the "grommets" on hand for when I need them, I try whenever possible to NOT have exposed connections out in the rain. (such as putting them directly under an eave, in a protective box, etc.) That is why is have actually used VERY few of them.
Amazon.com: RADIO SHACK RADIOSHACK 278-1658 WEATHER RESISTANT COAX BOOT CONNECTOR USE WITH RG59, RG6, RG6/QS COAX CABLE, "f" AND MANY OTHER RF TYPE CONNECTORS
For me, "boots" totally enclose the connector - the "grommets" simply seal the (inner) connector threads from moisture, which is what you ultimately want.
And even though I have a supply of the "grommets" on hand for when I need them, I try whenever possible to NOT have exposed connections out in the rain. (such as putting them directly under an eave, in a protective box, etc.) That is why is have actually used VERY few of them.
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As with all other considerations....IF you are a contractor you are paid for results.The whole point of competitive bidding is to get the specified result for the lowest price. Contractors find the cheapest materials that meet a performance specification.
IF you are an employee you are paid for doing what the employer wants. Employees do not buy anything.
It goes like that.....could they fail one of your jobs just because you went around them and bought fittings from P 10 directly?
Joe
IF you are an employee you are paid for doing what the employer wants. Employees do not buy anything.
It goes like that.....could they fail one of your jobs just because you went around them and bought fittings from P 10 directly?
Joe
dishrich
Oh, I didn't see JM was quoting you - I thought he was talking about these things that used to be used years ago:
Amazon.com: RADIO SHACK RADIOSHACK 278-1658 WEATHER RESISTANT COAX BOOT CONNECTOR USE WITH RG59, RG6, RG6/QS COAX CABLE, "f" AND MANY OTHER RF TYPE CONNECTORS
For me, "boots" totally enclose the connector - the "grommets" simply seal the (inner) connector threads from moisture, which is what you ultimately want.
And even though I have a supply of the "grommets" on hand for when I need them, I try whenever possible to NOT have exposed connections out in the rain. (such as putting them directly under an eave, in a protective box, etc.) That is why is have actually used VERY few of them.
Yup, Those early "boots" were actually spark plug covers and filled up with water.....never drained....and forced the water to condense into the fittings. But one does what is on the spec.
Joe
Oh, I didn't see JM was quoting you - I thought he was talking about these things that used to be used years ago:
Amazon.com: RADIO SHACK RADIOSHACK 278-1658 WEATHER RESISTANT COAX BOOT CONNECTOR USE WITH RG59, RG6, RG6/QS COAX CABLE, "f" AND MANY OTHER RF TYPE CONNECTORS
For me, "boots" totally enclose the connector - the "grommets" simply seal the (inner) connector threads from moisture, which is what you ultimately want.
And even though I have a supply of the "grommets" on hand for when I need them, I try whenever possible to NOT have exposed connections out in the rain. (such as putting them directly under an eave, in a protective box, etc.) That is why is have actually used VERY few of them.
Yup, Those early "boots" were actually spark plug covers and filled up with water.....never drained....and forced the water to condense into the fittings. But one does what is on the spec.
Joe
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I was also under the impression that 'boots' was in reference to the older boots that cover the whole connector, which is why I made that comment. As for the threads, yes the grommets are definitely better than nothing at all, but I have doubts as to how much water would actually get into a wrench tight connection through the threads. It's not as tight as a taper thread, but I don't think it would get that far in. It definitely wouldn't get to the inner conductor, even without an O-ring.
And kjlued, I agree twisters are the worst, but I'm pretty sure 100% of those you find are installed by the homeowner. Either as a replacement or because they didn't want to spend $40 on the crimper when they pulled wire.
And kjlued, I agree twisters are the worst, but I'm pretty sure 100% of those you find are installed by the homeowner. Either as a replacement or because they didn't want to spend $40 on the crimper when they pulled wire.
I got it that the "F" connector was named for the shape of the crimp tool used to crimp the fitting. The tool looked like an F. Compression tools look like many things.
I agree that the compression fittings are superior. I just object to someone just adding a cost to a project without compensation. My favorite quote on the subject was a warehouse clerk who put one 25 piece bag of fittings in each truck and then didn't want to hand out fittings the next day. "What do you guys do with these things?"..................It is EZ to go through a bag per job, especially if you are going to remove any "F" fittings encountered.
It is a money thing.
Joe
Yeah I get it.. The same crap happens in all forms of corporate business.. I've been there.
I've never really given much thought as to why connectors are named what they are.. I know there's a few single letters, like C, F, and N, and then a whole slew of 3 letter ones. But never thought farther into it.. Kind of like batteries - why is a "1/2AA" battery (Mac people know what these are) half the size of a AA battery yet double the voltage, but there is no A size?
I've never really given much thought as to why connectors are named what they are.. I know there's a few single letters, like C, F, and N, and then a whole slew of 3 letter ones. But never thought farther into it.. Kind of like batteries - why is a "1/2AA" battery (Mac people know what these are) half the size of a AA battery yet double the voltage, but there is no A size?
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Electricians areound here use them like crazy.
See them all the time in new houses where I am the first tech to install tv service.
Also in remodels and constantly behind wall plates where they were never changed.
Sure customers use them but I would say 98% of the ones I find are done by electricians.
That's why you don't use them on Plenum cable. You use these:
They're designed for Plenum. The right tool for the job, my friend.
You mean like how Dish discontinued their use a little over 2 years ago because they showed 1. no discernible benefit and 2. If the fitting was not torqued correctly, they trapped water in resulting in further problems?
Yeah. You realize we get dinged if we don't remove those things? So much for your theory.- Status
