Complicated and impossible installs of 322/522's

[JohnDoe#2]

So time and time again...usually when I'm sweating in the attic over my 3rd or 4th wall fish...I ask myself "What on earth was Dish thinking?"

>They were thinking that the DshPro+ platform would be ready simultaneously with the introduction of the x22s. In fact, the original promo rules & info provided for "up to 6 tuners" (i.e., 3x322s) to a customer. They had to change that fast when they realized there was no way that would work without giving away more DP34s.

I lost a job just yesterday that would've profited me about $150.00, but the guy simply wasn't impressed with the 322, and wanted just the standard 311's installed in four already-wired rooms. But as we tried to change the workorder, the idiots at SBC kept argueing with the man and refusing to give him the 311's! (that's not the first time this has happened to one of my customers).

>SBC is considered to be a seperate partner from E*. Their promo rules & regs are a bit different. They definately are based on the x22s. I would be curious to know if you've done any installs for SBC with 111s, 311s, or 510s.

PS. To throw in a positive suggestion, these 322/522's would be enormously easier to install if BOTH tuners had UHF remotes. Then the receiver could be installed just about anywhere...especially somewhere close to the existing cable junction (back room, closet, etc!)

>As previously noted, TV1 on the x22s can be converted to UHF. This requires a key convertable remote with a green TV1 UHF key and changing the default remote addresses.

...............

 

[Neutron]

thye do tell you the truth about phone and how many wires i mean it should not be that hard for you i think your probally just a normal lazy installer who wnats to come in and use the cable company wires whitch by the way i took out so you would have to run new lines a lot of times the wires may not be good quality anyway so i want new stuff and if you were installing all single tuner you would still run a wire for each one direct tivo does require two inputs and a phoneline

First off I'm no installer. Second, the DTivo DOES NOT require both tuners to be hooked up. You can have just one cable and one tuner hooked up if you wish. There's even a setting in the setup to tell the Dtivo if there is 1 or both hooked up. It only requires the phone line on the initial setup. After that you don't need it.

 

[kwajr]

First off I'm no installer. Second, the DTivo DOES NOT require both tuners to be hooked up. You can have just one cable and one tuner hooked up if you wish. There's even a setting in the setup to tell the Dtivo if there is 1 or both hooked up. It only requires the phone line on the initial setup. After that you don't need it.

i did not say you have to hook up both tuners but if you do it has to have 2 lines it has to call for the guide right but either way phone should not be that big a deal it is only 2 wires to hook into to add a jack more people should learn how to do things for them selves ht einternet is a great tool use it folks

 

[thiggin2]

I have a 322 and I only have one tuner hooked up and it works fine for me....

 

[cameron119]

i did not say you have to hook up both tuners but if you do it has to have 2 lines it has to call for the guide right but either way phone should not be that big a deal it is only 2 wires to hook into to add a jack more people should learn how to do things for them selves ht einternet is a great tool use it folks

Periods are a great tool; use them, jackass.

As far as you "removing cable wiring so the sat installer can't use them"...well, you've violated FCC demarcation rules. The wiring beyond the demarc is the customer's. If they give the sat installer permission to use them, then they damn well can.

Since you pulled some of that wiring out of these homes, you have effectively committed larceny and have violated FCC guidelines. Nice job!

 

[Neutron]

i did not say you have to hook up both tuners but if you do it has to have 2 lines it has to call for the guide right but either way phone should not be that big a deal it is only 2 wires to hook into to add a jack more people should learn how to do things for them selves ht einternet is a great tool use it folks

learn how to spell too. Your response took me a bit to dicipher thanks to you using no periods and not making sense. You did to say that the directivo required both tuners to work. Go reread your post. Like I said before, the phone line is only required for initial setup. After that you don't need it. And, if you're pulling cabling out of people's homes I hope they sue you for it.

 

[cameron119]

Forget suing. Larceny is a criminal offense. I say fry the bastard for stealing the customers' IW. Not to mention FCC fines and the like (hopefully the jerk was a contractor, so they are solely responsible and will receive the heavy hand). Whatever is beyond the demarc is the customers' to do with as they please. If our friend can read, he should head over to the FCC's website and check out the laws. You said it yourself: "the internet is a great tool, use it."

On another note, every installer that has ever done satellite work for me has been professional, hard-working, and on-time. They know that it is perfectly legal and logical for them to use the existing IW that BELONGS TO THE CUSTOMER for the installation if it is the cleanest, most appropriate avenue. Most newer homes include all IW, I'll bet you use that for cable install? Why didn't you run new lines? Jackass--because that is the most appropriate course of action.

Don't EVER come in here calling these installers lazy. Many are certified in their craft. You're certified in idiocy, jackass.

 

[kwajr]

Periods are a great tool; use them, jackass.

As far as you "removing cable wiring so the sat installer can't use them"...well, you've violated FCC demarcation rules. The wiring beyond the demarc is the customer's. If they give the sat installer permission to use them, then they damn well can.

Since you pulled some of that wiring out of these homes, you have effectively committed larceny and have violated FCC guidelines. Nice job!

look its my home jackass

 

[kwajr]

First off I'm no installer. Second, the DTivo DOES NOT require both tuners to be hooked up. You can have just one cable and one tuner hooked up if you wish. There's even a setting in the setup to tell the Dtivo if there is 1 or both hooked up. It only requires the phone line on the initial setup. After that you don't need it.

i meant if you want both tuners to work you would need two lines just like with a 522 yes you can run one wire mine works fine either way

 

[Neutron]

i meant if you want both tuners to work you would need two lines just like with a 522 yes you can run one wire mine works fine either way

Then say it just like that. To me you saying "you need to hook up both tuners of a DTivo for it to work properly" means that it won't work unless you hook up both.

I would hate to have you as my installer. I would end up kicking your ass. Are you like this to all your customers? Do they know that you are taking their cable that they own?

 

[wickedtao]

If you think the 322's are a stupid idea then obviosly you do not look at the BIG picture. Echostar and Directv Spend 60% of their cashflow on programming, 20% on salaries, 10% on other stuff, and then only 10% on service and installation. Simply put they don't care if an installer has to spend an extra ten dollars on an install, or for their own in-hoouse installers they still don't care if they have to provide more materials and time for a 322/522. Installation is a small part in the big picture. E* and Directv care more about how they can keep their monthly billing low.

But even more, the 322 can be switched with two 311's if deemed necessary, just change the work order. It's a good idea for folks who want to save $100 a year, that arent picky about technical or asthetic looks.

But the Dish Pro Plus diplexor, so you can now stop bitching.

 

[cameron119]

So you think it's okay for the installers to be underpaid and overworked? You're also a jackass.

More work should mean more pay. There is obviously more work involved that requires a bit more expertise and planning to be properly executed.

You OBVIOUSLY have no idea what goes into an install. There is a movie titled "TROLL" on Voom's Cinema 10. Were you a consultant?

 

[bcshields]

Well.. anyway.. an update on the diplexor configuration I mentioned ealier in the thread... I tried this last night with a 721 i was installing... the second tv turned out a bit fuzzy and black and white... not sure if it's the diplexors, my barrels, or my hack job wiring.

Will keep ya posted, i'll mess with it some more tonight.

 

[Joeydutton]

But even more, the 322 can be switched with two 311's if deemed necessary, just change the work order.

You make it sound so easy. When we try to get Dish to change the workorder, it often becomes a huge headache. The phone monkeys usually argue with you and ask for a "legitimate reason" to drop the 322. Or often the phone monkey will get confused and have to put you on hold while they go consult their supervisor as to what to do. It is even worse if you are dealing with SBC. Their computers simply won't allow them to make some changes at all. For instance, it is impossible to change a 522 to a 510 via SBC.

No, changing the work order is sometimes not an easy thing at all.

 

[David_Levin]

Well.. anyway.. an update on the diplexor configuration I mentioned ealier in the thread... I tried this last night with a 721 i was installing... the second tv turned out a bit fuzzy and black and white... not sure if it's the diplexors, my barrels, or my hack job wiring.

Will keep ya posted, i'll mess with it some more tonight.

(Wow this thread has degraded)

Please keep us posted on your experiments....

I've had problems with cheap diplexors (came with a Trek antenna). Did better with the $20 one's from radioshack.

Is this too wild?

Use the DPP44 over one cable then Diplex back over the same cable (many prewires have all RG6 feeds converging at a central point).

 

[bcshields]

Just spoke with a tech.. he said if my TV is getting Black and white, I'm losing frequency. I've got swept RG-6 but i barreled a few pieces together and one barrel wasn't swept. I'm going to replace that, and maybe try a different set of diplexors.

If I can get this to work, we'll start using this setup on our 322 installs to eliminate the 3-hole issues we've been having with installs.

BTW, when it comes to changing workorders for 322's to 311's.. it's simple. Takes me about 4 minutes. Don't call NFOC. Call the Add Dish line, Modify w/o, get the cust on the line to verify the extra fees, and let them modify it.. no problems.

 

[wickedtao]

If your 2nd tv is looking fuzzy most likely you hooked up your diplexors wrong. Make sure the 'in/out' ports on the diplexors always face each other...always, check that first, 90% of the time thats where installers get messed up.

Behind your receiver, output 2 goes to the antenna side of the diplexor, the sat side goes into sat in on the receiver. Outside or wherever the junction box is, sat side of dipplxor goes to the dish, antenna side goes to the second tv wire. Remember in/out ports always facing each other.

Also what channel is the second tv on. Try changing that by going to menu, installation, modulation setup, or 6, 1, 5. You can experiment on different channels to see if your picture clears up; if you have a local statiln broadcasting say on channel 59, 60, or 61 then do not use channel 60 as the 2nd output modulation...interference.

 

[wickedtao]

So you think it's okay for the installers to be underpaid and overworked? You're also a jackass.

More work should mean more pay. There is obviously more work involved that requires a bit more expertise and planning to be properly executed.

You OBVIOUSLY have no idea what goes into an install. There is a movie titled "TROLL" on Voom's Cinema 10. Were you a consultant?

My friend, you are so short sighted on the big issue here...While you argue that installers should be getting paid for what they work, I don't think you understand that when the DPP diplexors does come out you'll be still getting paid that same amount and now 50% of your work has been illeviated. It works both ways, sure Dish plans stuff sh!tty and you WILL get screwed, but that is what feeback is for. Look ahead.

Look at all the ways you can take advantage of Dish. You can do a Superdish upgrade and get paid the same amount as doing a two reciever install. You can go to a trouble call, change the cusotmers channle to channel 3 or 4 and get paid $25 bucks. In this industry there are the people who know how to work it and those who get sh*t on. Learn the game and or stop complaining.

 

[wickedtao]

You make it sound so easy. When we try to get Dish to change the workorder, it often becomes a huge headache. The phone monkeys usually argue with you and ask for a "legitimate reason" to drop the 322. Or often the phone monkey will get confused and have to put you on hold while they go consult their supervisor as to what to do. It is even worse if you are dealing with SBC. Their computers simply won't allow them to make some changes at all. For instance, it is impossible to change a 522 to a 510 via SBC.

No, changing the work order is sometimes not an easy thing at all.

You are 100% correct on the SBC issue; they simply won't accept a 510 receiver. I don't know why, but that needs to be fixed.

If they won't change the work order on other situations, mention business rule paragraph 24. That states you can change the receivers.

 

[bcshields]

If your 2nd tv is looking fuzzy most likely you hooked up your diplexors wrong. Make sure the 'in/out' ports on the diplexors always face each other...always, check that first, 90% of the time thats where installers get messed up.

Behind your receiver, output 2 goes to the antenna side of the diplexor, the sat side goes into sat in on the receiver. Outside or wherever the junction box is, sat side of dipplxor goes to the dish, antenna side goes to the second tv wire. Remember in/out ports always facing each other.

Also what channel is the second tv on. Try changing that by going to menu, installation, modulation setup, or 6, 1, 5. You can experiment on different channels to see if your picture clears up; if you have a local statiln broadcasting say on channel 59, 60, or 61 then do not use channel 60 as the 2nd output modulation...interference.

The diplexors are right.. had them working to diplex off air IN the house previously. This time I'm diplexing the TV output OUT to a mirror TV, aka like a 322's TV2 output. I think the diplexors are only swept to 2150, I have 2 3000's in my pocket, I also have 1 900mhz barrel in the line, I'm going to switch that out with a 3000 barrel. The wire is a combo of RG-6 swept to 2250 and RG-11. After that i start changing out connectors... i think i can get this to work.