Commercial install

[PokerMunkee]

Hopefully I'm posting this in the right area. I'm an I.T. guy being asked to help update our TV system at our casino/hotel. We currently have 40 DirecTV receivers at the head end going into 40 modulators and broadcast the 40 analog channels to 60 hotel rooms and another 30 TVs on the casino.

I was talking to a vendor and he suggested we install a new system that DirecTV has that feeds to a single satellite and integrates the receivers/modulators in a small 4U unit. It has cards that have 16 channels in each slot. He says we could make channel 1 our TV guide and then organize the channels in the order we want (map ESPN 206 to channel 2, etc). We would get to utilize our existing coax cables and broadcast HD to all of our TVs over the RF input. Can also have the TV show the channel name in the corner when you flip to a channel.

I can't recall the name of this system.

Does anyone know what it's called? Can it really broadcast HD to the RF input on LCD TVs?

 

[Claude Greiner]

I'm very familiar with this type of system. It's called a com2000.

It's 8 channels per card/slot and the chassis can do up to 48 HD channels.

The only issue is you need pro-idium televisions in the hotel rooms, since HD programming is required to be encrypted.

The 30 televisions on the casino floor are going to require a separate account, and are likely not pro-idium capable televisions.

The headend with 48 channels runs about $10,000 before the discounts offered by directv.

Send me a private message if you need more info.

They are very easy to setup once you understand how they work.

 

[PokerMunkee]

Awesome, thanks! Gives me something to research now. We have such a mix of Tvs, so this could be an issue.

Any other options worth looking at? Need to use old rg59 in hotel rooms and have all tvs have sam3 channel lineup. Also need to have a few in house channels going to computers.

 

[Claude Greiner]

Rg59 is fine with the com2000 system.

The In house channels can be done using an HD modulator which is about $1000 per channel broadcasting in 1080i

The other option is putting a receiver on every tv, which is more cost effective due to the smaller number of Tv's but may mean running all new wire to each television.

So you either spend $10,000 and replace the headend unit without running new wire, or $75 per Tv to install a box behind every tv and have to rewire.

If you do the boxes behind each tv, you could set it up as a DRE install and there is an option to do local content insertion such as the inhouse channels but it's a pain to setup and configure that way.

Start by researching what type of Tv's are in the guest rooms. Are they all the same, are they pro-idium, or are they a mixture of whatever was available at the local SAMs club or Best Buy?

If they are not pro-iDium Tv's then there is a $100 converter you can buy, but it's been out of stock for over a year, so you might as well install a Directv receiver.

Also the wiring in the hotel is important. Is it all home ran, or does it loop through each wall plate?

If you pull a wall plate in a few of the guest rooms it's easy to see if it's loop through as there is usually a tap inside the wall plate.

 

[PokerMunkee]

Our main 40 rooms have their own home run. Not sure about our 20 other rooms, as I only count 16 home runs coming in. Need to investigate a little.

Do you see any issues sending the signal down the block, thousands of feet of coax? I'm sure we'll have to add amplifiers. I just want all of our TVs on the same system. I know we have a bunch of splitters, so it will just be a project. Hook it up and go fix what doesn't see the new system. We'll be able to get rid of 60 DirecTV receivers. The system we have now is a mess.... majority on old analog headend, some with HD receivers. I want ESPN to be channel 11 on every TV, etc. Also be nice to have our inhouse channels on HD.

The Pro-Idium will be interesting. You got it, our TVs are whatever Sam's club had in stock whenever we needed them. Hopefully we can get an adapter. A lot of our TVs need to be replaced anyways, so we'll just need to budget $30K for new TVs it looks. I need to see if Sams/Costco carry Pro-Idium TVs, I'm sure they do??

Thanks for the great information, it's been of great help.

 

[Claude Greiner]

There are pro-idium adapters they sell for $100 each, but they have been out of stock for years.

So you need to either make the decision to buy all new Tv's or put Directv HD receivers behind each Tv.

SAMs, Costco and Best Buy do not sell pro-idium Tv's you need to go through the manufacture or an authorized distributor that sells commercial grade televisions.

The whole key to this whole thing will me if your willing to buy pro-idium televisions, or keep your existing Tv's and put a box behind each tv.

No issue with sending the signal thousands of feet. It's a matter of calculating loss and installing a big enough amp on the headend to make up for the signal loss.

I think the formula is 5-6 Db Loss for 100 feet of Rg6 and 3-4 Db loss of your using Rg11.

Then you loose 2.5-12 Db for every splitter, plus a Db here and there at every connection, wall plate Etc.

 

[twizt3dsist3r]

I think its 10dB per 100ft on Rg6

 

[Claude Greiner]

Yea 10 DB is at 2150 MHZ which is for Dish and Directv signals.

If your doing standard RF either in Analog or QAM it can very. For example per 100 foot loss..

Channel 2 - 1.5 DB
Channel 13 - 3 DB
Channel 14 - 4.5 DB
Channel 51 - 5.6 DB

If your doing a digital headend, your more than likely going to stack 3 HD channels per QAM channel, and as an example may use QAM channels 30-46 which your loss is in the neighborhood of 5 DB in that frequency range.

A Qam modulated HD Com2000 system will look like this in your channel lineup...

QAM is the frequency the channel resides on, the virtual channel is what the guest sees on the TV, the Directv is the actual channel the Com2000 uses to access to the Directv programming

QAM Channel 30.1 ----> Virtual Channel 2 (Directv Channel 200 CNN)
QAM Channel 30.2-----> Virtual Channel 3 (Directv Channel 206 ESPN)
QAM Channel 30.3 -----> Virtual Channel 4 (Directv Channel 501 HBO)
QAM Channel 31.1 -----> Virtual Channel 5 (Directv Channal 216 NBA TV)
QAM Channel 31.2 -----> Virtual Channel 6 (Directv Channel 247 TBS)
Qam Channel 31.3 -----> Virtual Channel 7 (Directv Channel 242 USA)
Qam Channel 32.1------> Virtual Channel 8 (Directv Channel 244 SYFY)
Qam Channel 32.2 -----> Virtual Channel 9 (Directv Channel 275 QVC)
Qam Channel 32.3 -----> Virtual channel 10 (Directv Channel 254 AMC)
Qam Channel 33.1-----> Virtual Channel 11 (Directv Channel 355 CNBC)

 

[PokerMunkee]

Claude,

Can the com2000 send a non pro:idiom signal out to public TVs?

A DISH installer is telling me he can sell me two Smartboxes (similar to com2000), one that sends the pro:idiom signal to our hotel rooms and one that sends a regular non encrypted signal to our public TVs on the casino floors.

Does DISH have this ability? I want to modulate HD to our casino floor so we can keep in our in-house channels available on all TVs for our promos, etc.

 

[Claude Greiner]

Claude,

Can the com2000 send a non pro:idiom signal out to public TVs?

A DISH installer is telling me he can sell me two Smartboxes (similar to com2000), one that sends the pro:idiom signal to our hotel rooms and one that sends a regular non encrypted signal to our public TVs on the casino floors.

Does DISH have this ability? I want to modulate HD to our casino floor so we can keep in our in-house channels available on all TVs for our promos, etc.

There is an option to turn off pro-idium but it requires special approval from Directv for HD

You can run SD with the pro-idium turned off with no issues.

I don't think 2 smart boxes are the answer considering the cost.

How many televisions on the casino floor so I can tell you where the break even point is using various types equipment.

The inhouse channels you will need to do with a zee Vee digital modulator at a cost of about $1000 per channel for a single channel modulator.