Closed Captioning Who's Responsible?

hobie16

SatelliteGuys Family
Original poster
Apr 29, 2008
104
2
USA (Full time RV'er
Why is closed captioning not available on some channels? I don't know who is responsible for providing this feature Dish or the content provider. I note on several show there is a credit at the end of the broadcast saying "Closed captioning by..."

Also on the HD channels where CC is available, the only option is to use the feature on my 722K not the built in feature on Sony Bravia; its hard to get to, have drill down through several menus each time I need to make a change, turn off or on etc.
Being able to use CC is big plus for those of us are hearing impaired !
 
The TV is unable to use the CC because it would have to get the signal through the TV's internal tuner, like cable or OTA. The signal going into the TV from cable or OTA has the CC info with it. The signal coming from a satellite receiver is audio/video only. That is why you have to use the CC in the receiver menu.
 
I wish there was an option on the receiver for CC on mute only, instead of just on/off.
 
TV remotes that I've seen have a CC button on it for enabling/toggling through CC options. It would seem that a button on the DISH remote could do this or at least simply turn on/off CC. If it was simply an on/off button, it would be understood that one must drill into the menus to customize CC.
 
I feel everyone's pain. I was VERY disappointed NOT to see a CC button on the new remotes (Hopper/Joey). There are a lot of times when one viewer needs the CC and the others don't, and they have to come crying to me to turn it off (because I forget to set CC back to off for them). C'mon, Dish, it could be a button in a depressed hole like the RECOVER button on past remotes, just in case Dish was worried subs might accidentally turn it on or off.

There is no standard as to how the CC is handled DIGITALLY--OUTSIDE of ATSC (your local broadcaster using an OTA antenna connected directly into your HDTV. The old analog standard cannot be used for digital STB's because STB's and HDTV's use line doubling and other enhancements that eliminate line 19 and the data on it. If you playback a DVD at 480p (activating your progressive line playback option) you LOSE CC even in the analog component connection because your DVD player has altered the display of the lines and for practical purposes it is buh-buy to line 19 as we know it and all its data. In the digital realm (excluding ATSC), CC is handled by the set-top-box, NOT the TV.

The program provider is responsible for providing or producing the CC data and sending it out with the programming. It seems broadcasters are the only group required to support CC. Unless the law has changed, there is no mandate that anything in the digital realm, such as satellite STB's SUPPORT CC, but manufactures do because CC is now a legacy service.

In the non-ATSC digital realm, each is free to technically support CC as they wish because there is no mandated standard for encoding programming data (outside of the CableLabs regarding digita, but that is an industry convention, and that adaption is approved and regulated by the FCC for reasons of access for 3rd parties such as TiVo).
In some cases DirecTV and Dish have incompatible or significant differences in the methods of transporting programming data from platform to encoding, etc.

So, the MVPD received the programming and CC data along with it (method not mandated because it is a closed circuit "turnaround," but often standardized so that MVPD's like Dish only have to deal with one sort or model of demodulator, keeping costs and complexity down. Now, Dish has to encode all that data as they see fit to the best efficiency of their system, just as long as they re-enode the CC in such a way (any way) that their sat box in your home can receive and display it. This results in an overlay that is display as part of the picture. The CC data stream is NOT recorded if you bump a show to a DVD, for instance. You are recording the picture only (as opposed to the old analog VCR's that recorded data, as well, because the data was stuffed in a line of resolution; digital can use separate packets for TV picture data, CC data, color data, luminance data, etc.), so you can not turn CC on and off on such a DVD recording. If you want CC on the DVD, then you leave the CC display to on when recording and the CC appears as part of the picture, so you can't turn it off, (nor on if you don't have it displayed during the DVD recording).

Now, this lack of a mandated standard in the digital realm is actually good, because it means the MVPD can quickly enhance or upgrade technology to provide us with MORE programming channels and services, otherwise we would be LOCKED into standard. Witness the horrible fact that ATSC is forever doomed to MPEG2 and many local stations suffer from the effects of too much data on too narrow a bandwidth that could be solved with MEPG4 to a very high degree. But if ATSC when MPEG4 overnight (the ATSC standard does support MPEG4, but this would also require a HARDWARE upgrade), a lot of angry OTA HDTV viewers would be plenty angry as they would have useless HDTV's for OTA or TiVo's or other OTA DVR's.

Now, in my experience, the CC is mess-up more often because of Dish, I would say, because it appears as gibberish, but if I skip back and replay, it may display properly (possibly how the data is read off the HDD). Other times it is just out of sync with the programming, and while that can be due to the production of the CC, I have found it to also be the fault of Dish. I think the CC on Dish has improved as History was a constant irritant, but now appears stable for all shows.

To be fair, there are other times when it is CLEARLY Operator Head-space from the individual who created the CC. Too many to list here, but fair to say that CC suffers from dumb operators doing the CC by hand, automated systems that can place CC data out of sync with the action (that is surprisingly ANNOYING) of in the case of cable, satellite, the MVPD's engineers monitoring to be certain that any encoding changes they make don't diminish the CC.

Now, the really big problem is the on-line streaming services. Again NO MANDATE to provide CC, but the few that do seem to do it VERY POORLY and on hardly any content. I often forget about this as I am so EXCITED that I can see some stuff on a streaming service, only to be reminded when I view it that is has NO CC.

The best thing we can do is contact Dish (as I've done in the past) and inform them of any problems with CC. It seems that Dish does listen and try to fix the problems when they occur or even contact the provider if it is on that party's end. But we must let Dish and all MVPD's know.
 
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I also find it annoying that there is not a CC button on the remote. 99.9% of the time I have it off, but every now and then I just cannot figure out what was said no matter how loud or number of times I listen and finally resort to CC. Probably a bad edit where they got the sound out of sync or something, but at least CC can clear it up.
 
I also find it annoying that there is not a CC button on the remote. 99.9% of the time I have it off, but every now and then I just cannot figure out what was said no matter how loud or number of times I listen and finally resort to CC. Probably a bad edit where they got the sound out of sync or something, but at least CC can clear it up.

OH, no, my friend. I have found that this is due to how POORLY people in our modern day speak. I've found this really bad with newscasts, especially from YOUNGER reporters and anchors, but I seem to less trouble understanding the old pros. I have even had my good hearing friends listen to whatever and tell me THEY can't make out what is said either. And, the kicker is, that with live programming, the CC operator (typist) doesn't know either because the CC's stop suddenly, then a few characters, then backspace, then they just SKIP what we ALL couldn't hear from the youngin' speaking.

For movies and TV shows, the CC operators work off a the script, so those have a high accuracy rate.

While I'm grateful for CC, I do find them lacking far too often.
 
I thought the line 19 CC was still available on Dish receivers' NTSC outputs.
 
I thought the line 19 CC was still available on Dish receivers' NTSC outputs.

Yes, this happen in the STB. It takes the digital data and converts it to analog and takes the CC data packet and inserts it at line 19 for the analog outputs for the TV to handle. However, this is not the case with the digital output, that is to what I was referring. To view CC via digital, it is the STB that displays it; the TV is not sent the data. However, I do believe that you can activate the CC to display via the STB and it will display via the analog outputs, as well, since it would be an overlay of the picture.

The problem is I have come in contact with a lot of people who who say they can't get CC anymore or in only few instances. In those cases, it turns out that they have their STB's, etc. connected to their display with a digital (HDMI) connection, even their DVD upconversion digital output. This is why more DVD's and Blu-ray exclusively are using subtitles NOT CC. Dish and other MVPD's have to be careful that how ever they encode and whenever they tweak, that the don't diminish CC packet is not only sent reliably, but that it can be displayed and synched reliably, and that the vagaries of an HDD for the DVR's don't cause too much problems.
 
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