Does that say TP 7? Aren't TPs 1-16 for spots and 17-32 CONUS (if I remember correctly, could have it backwards)? Perhaps that's why some haven't seen anything: They're testing the spots.
Ciel 2 Tracking
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Does that say TP 7? Aren't TPs 1-16 for spots and 17-32 CONUS (if I remember correctly, could have it backwards)? Perhaps that's why some haven't seen anything: They're testing the spots.
Nope. But the signal moved from Transponder 19 to 20 to 21. So definitely testing going on. Today is the first time that I've seen any activity.
Sounds like they are fireing up individual transponders before fireing them all up. Its kind of like turning on the lite switch... except this bird has 32 of them. or so.
In an earlier FCC request where Dish asked to modify the number of receive stations from 1,000,000 to 5,000,000, they indicated that Ciel 2 should be operating on or about January 4, 2009. I think they might be a little behind schedule since Ciel 2 is still at 138° West.
http://licensing.fcc.gov/ibfsweb/ib.page.FetchAttachment?attachment_key=-154416
http://licensing.fcc.gov/ibfsweb/ib.page.FetchAttachment?attachment_key=-154416
Well this is good news, at least now we know the satellite is sitting at the right position and seems to be testing. One worry down, now just got to see it be successful in testing and moving to 129.
It shouldn't be long, but there's always the 30" single dish if you can't wait.
Info ?
Do we have info as to if they are going to run spots and what tps they will be?
Do we have info as to if they are going to run spots and what tps they will be?
photoman76, thanks for the link and the information. Very interesting.
For the benefit of a few who might not visit the link and look at the licensing request from Dish Network, here are a few facts listed in the document. Most of this has probably been stated in this or other threads here before, but a little repetition shouldn't hurt.
* Transponders 1-16 are for spot beams. Transponders 17-32 will be used for CONUS/Canadian channels. Transponder 17 is switchable, meaning it can be used for spot beam or CONUS.
* There are 53 spot beams. I don't know how that translates or relates to the previously reported "145" spot beams, as there was also a comment that service would be expanded by multiple use. (?) Not being technically savvy, it seemed to me that the "53 spot beams" referred to 53 discrete pieces of equipment. Does anyone know (that will tell)?
* Unless I misunderstood what I read, spot beam use will be across all 50 states, specifically including HI and AK by name.
* The document was dated Sep. 26. The launch of Ciel-2 was delayed about a week, so the new use date should be about Jan. 10 unless the testing can be speeded up in some way. (Charlie Ergen had mentioned the launch delay in his last Charlie Chat.)
Just to confirm what someone else had posted, the rent starts when the sat is in place (at 129W) and operational, and is handed over to Dish for use by the Ciel-2 owners. I thought I would find out what the lease fee is, but that info. was redacted as being proprietary in nature (but was submitted under separate cover). (The technical specifications of the satellite, and much other commercial proprietary data was also redacted. The actual capabilities of the satellite were not described in their totality or with any substantial degree of specificity.) Also, the Canadian government has the right to use one transponder if they want; I didn't see any indication that the Canadian govt. had any current plan for use. A final note: Ciel-2 will be at 128.85W; apparently there is another sat. at 129W now, and they wanted a little physical separation to ensure the two satellites didn't run into each other.
Happy holidays,
Fitzie
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Where are you getting your track info?
According to LIVE REAL TIME SATELLITE TRACKING: CIEL-2 it's at 121.35°W this morning and was in that area all day yesterday.
Many of the 53 spots is covered by multiple transponders. There are 145 spot transponders spread across 53 spots. All of them are unlikely to be used due to power issues. It seems it also backs up E10.
So far as I can tell, n2yo uses the two line element (TLE) put out by NORAD to project (by computer) what's happening. If NORAD takes Christmas off and doesn't post an updated TLE, n2yo has no way of knowing where the sat. actually is.
Aside from that, photoman76 posted previously that he had observed testing activity at the 138W location yesterday. It's presumed to be Ciel-2, since that is where Ciel-2 is actually supposed to be testing at this time.
Regards,
Fitzie
Thanks, that makes sense of what I read.
Concerning the power thing, the licensing document does a lot of bragging about how much power Ciel-2 has. I got the definite impression power would not be an issue.
Regards,
Fitzie
It's powerful for a sat, particularly a Thales Alenia spacebus, but not enough to power 16 CONUS transponders and 145 spotbeam transponders. I believe it has a similar amount of power to Echostar 10, but close to the same number of spotbeam transponders.
Echostar 11 has nearly twice the power of Ciel-2.
Comparing the E-7 satellite at 119 W to Ciel-2 from a power and spotbeam capabilities perspective is useful. E-7 has a quoted power of 13 kW compared to 10.8 kW for Ciel-2 but one could argue that Ciel-2 being newer is probably more efficient. E-7 has 16 CONUS TPs active at 240 watts and up to 25 TPs providing spotbeam coverage. The CONUS TPs on Ciel-2 are also at 240 watts so one can see what the power limitations are for Ciel-2. Now E-7 could have been designed with a very high power margin but I can not believe that Ciel-2 could have the capability to provide all 16 CONUS TPs and even half of the 145 spot TPs at the same time, perhaps 50 at most.
Some folks might wonder why Dish would have Ciel-2 designed this way. First it does provide backup for the E-10 spotbeams at 110 W. One also has to look a few years down the line when Dish converts everthing to MPEG-4. Besides internationals, there about 215 video channels on Dish not including locals. Assuming all of them were HD (which is unlikely but certainly that would be the extreme), at 7 HD channels per TP, Dish would need about 31 CONUS TPS. For the Western Arc, Dish currently uses 19 TPs at 110 W and 16 TPs at 119 W in CONUS mode for a total of 35, four more than the needed 31. So Dish doesn't really need CONUS TPs at 129 W in the future but they will need a massive number of spotbeams for HD locals. As a side note, I would expect the E-14 satellite which is going to 119 W to either be a satellite like Ciel-2, both spotbeam and CONUS or just a big spotbeam satellite like E-10.
Some folks might wonder why Dish would have Ciel-2 designed this way. First it does provide backup for the E-10 spotbeams at 110 W. One also has to look a few years down the line when Dish converts everthing to MPEG-4. Besides internationals, there about 215 video channels on Dish not including locals. Assuming all of them were HD (which is unlikely but certainly that would be the extreme), at 7 HD channels per TP, Dish would need about 31 CONUS TPS. For the Western Arc, Dish currently uses 19 TPs at 110 W and 16 TPs at 119 W in CONUS mode for a total of 35, four more than the needed 31. So Dish doesn't really need CONUS TPs at 129 W in the future but they will need a massive number of spotbeams for HD locals. As a side note, I would expect the E-14 satellite which is going to 119 W to either be a satellite like Ciel-2, both spotbeam and CONUS or just a big spotbeam satellite like E-10.
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NORAD put all of their resources in to tracking Santa over the Christmas holiday. They should be back to the regular work of tracking satellites any day now.
