I think the idea of ceasing SD broadcast is starting to make some sense. Maybe I'm missing something but it seems like every argument to keep SD has been rebutted.
Cease all SD Broadcasts
- Thread starter inazsully
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Only ones that need to stay are those that don't have HD feeds. Heck no more than they are of those those could go on just 1 or 2 tps.
Disney is viewing the HD & SD feed as separate channels and wants payment for both. They also probably refuse to sell the HD channel in a package without the SD version. And to get ESPN they probably require all the SD versions. They work the contract so that DBS/Cable has no choice but to carry all the channels in SD and pay again if they want to carry the "optional" HD version.
I see the word probably a lot there. It seems like there should be some legalaties involved here. Public domain and all that stuff. Why would/should any carrier pay extra for the SD feed when the HD feed satisfies all subs? If anything it should be the SD channel considered "optional" even though in reality the SD channel is useless for anybody but the provider and that use is totally unjustifiable except for lining their pockets. On moral levels it should be illegal. Double dipping is bad, unless it's on an ice cream cone.
Well I said probably since I do not have any contracts with Disney to see the wording... Probably is based on what Dish said when they dropped the Disney HD feeds. They lost the court case with Disney and was told they owed Disney millions of dollars since they were carrying the HD feeds without paying for them (Dish's position was they should have been covered by thier contract on the SD broadcasts). Again, without seeing the Dish/Disney contract one has to hedge the comments since we only have what Dish has said about it and I do not remember any press release from Disney giving their side.
Remember this is a civil contract between Dish and Disney. There is nothing stopping Disney from charging as they like for their content except for Dish's refusal to pay the demand.
They will stop broadcasting it when we stop watching it. Call me what you'd like but I won't watch SD it drives me nuts. When we the people who pick up the tab stop watching SD they will stop sending it.
I say this after I recently switched from Absolute HD to AT250. But this was only to gain more HD.
I say this after I recently switched from Absolute HD to AT250. But this was only to gain more HD.
Morals? These programmers are businesses that are profit driven. They have the right to set pricing on how they sell their product.
If Dish doesn't like it, then they don't have to buy the product. There's no gun to their head here.... it's cable tv... not some essential service.
No. I did mean extrude. Far more visual, was my lame attempt. A metaphor? But thanks for the observation.
so who will pay to upgrade every SD receiver in the field? go look in a mirror its YOU....
the costs to do this will be staggering, and just disturbing subs will no doubt cost them some....
so bigger costs and more churn
the costs to do this will be staggering, and just disturbing subs will no doubt cost them some....
so bigger costs and more churn
Interesting note:
DIRECTV recently substituted the LIL HD PBS channel (OPB HD) for the LIL SD PBS channel (OPB) and DIRECTV subs in this area are up in arms about it. The channels have substantially different schedules; OPB is classic PBS and OPB HD is a variety of HD (much of it produced locally) programming.
Be careful what you ask for.
DIRECTV recently substituted the LIL HD PBS channel (OPB HD) for the LIL SD PBS channel (OPB) and DIRECTV subs in this area are up in arms about it. The channels have substantially different schedules; OPB is classic PBS and OPB HD is a variety of HD (much of it produced locally) programming.
Be careful what you ask for.
The mass majority of people in the US that even have HD available on their tvs, do no know the difference and do not care. They blindly watch whatever comes on mindlessly. HD on a screen size of less than 40 inches is not that impressive.
I disagree with that statement. Based on my experience in servicing a huge retirement community the difference between SD and HD is easily noticed on anything designed for HD and 32" and up. They may watch whatever comes on but they sure see the difference between SD and HD. At 40" you'd have to be blind not to see the difference. Anyone buying a new TV 42" thru 65" will demand HD in order to justify the expense of their new display.
If the fcc has its way, ota hd will go bye-bye. They want to free spectrum by putting all tv's in one city on one transmitter and mux them into the bandwidth of one. That will kill things as some stations run the full bandwidth for HD, others already cramp HD and 1, 2 , 3 or more SD's and below into one band. You can't do 2 full quality OTA's in one channel.
My understandings regarding Dish Networks long distance plans may be cloudy but I do think the possibility of Dish ceasing SD broadcast could at least be doable sometime during 2011 or 2012. The Free HD for Life offering was a marketing success and becoming the only 100% HD provider would place them in a position of HD dominance. A very good marketing ploy. The production of SD receivers stopped over two years ago. All new subs in the eastern arc automatically receive HD equipment right now. On a national basis all new subs who qualify for HD equipment will receive HD equipment regardless of the package they order. I believe HD receivers will down rez the HD signal to SD for those that cannot display a HD picture. The question for Dish will be the return on investment for phasing out existing SD equipment and replacing them with HD equipment. As more and more SD receivers fail and new subs get HD receivers a break even point will be reached.. Remember, all those existing SD receiver owners will be buying an HD display's eventually and they're going to want HD.
i like having the option to use both SD and HD when it comes to my DVR. an hd broadcast takes up over 6 times as much room on my harddrive as the standered definition version. that would limit my 722 to only 55 hours of recording period. right now i can record up to 350 hours if i did so only in SD. i like having the choice of being able to budget my hours this way.
also, when weather gets bad, first sat i lose every time is 129. with my dish peaked i only get as high as 60 points on various transponders, while my 119 is hitting mid 80's. so when the weather does come in and i lose my hd channel, i can always flip over to the SD feed and pull off of 110 119 .
also, when weather gets bad, first sat i lose every time is 129. with my dish peaked i only get as high as 60 points on various transponders, while my 119 is hitting mid 80's. so when the weather does come in and i lose my hd channel, i can always flip over to the SD feed and pull off of 110 119 .
I honestly still like some of the SD channels... I actually prefer watching the SD channel over the HD version on particular channels that think they should stretch 4:3 upconverted SD to 16:9 HD...
However, I think they should at least transition to MPEG4 SD, or better yet, maybe we can get all these dang HD channel networks to stop stretching stuff...
Good points. However, the MPEG4 HD channels don't take up 6 times as much space as the MPEG2 SD channels. Those counters in the DVR screen were from back when HD was still MPEG2. MPEG4 generally takes up half as much space and with the VBR it can be even less. It is nice to have the option to take up less space though. So you're gonna get a lot more than 55 hours HD. Yeah, I get about the same signal strengths, but my signal is hardly ever lost, and 110/119 at least for me don't really come in but maybe a minute or two longer than 129. Though if on the rare occasions I do lose 129 and I'm really into something it is nice to flip to 110/119 to catch whatever I don't wanna miss.
What would be cool is if they could at least switch the SD's to MPEG 4 on the western arc. But the major issue is that it would cost a boatload of money to get rid of all the non-ViP receivers already out there in the current install base. Just like it would if we were to just drop the SD channels completely.
However, I think they should at least transition to MPEG4 SD, or better yet, maybe we can get all these dang HD channel networks to stop stretching stuff...
Good points. However, the MPEG4 HD channels don't take up 6 times as much space as the MPEG2 SD channels. Those counters in the DVR screen were from back when HD was still MPEG2. MPEG4 generally takes up half as much space and with the VBR it can be even less. It is nice to have the option to take up less space though. So you're gonna get a lot more than 55 hours HD. Yeah, I get about the same signal strengths, but my signal is hardly ever lost, and 110/119 at least for me don't really come in but maybe a minute or two longer than 129. Though if on the rare occasions I do lose 129 and I'm really into something it is nice to flip to 110/119 to catch whatever I don't wanna miss.
What would be cool is if they could at least switch the SD's to MPEG 4 on the western arc. But the major issue is that it would cost a boatload of money to get rid of all the non-ViP receivers already out there in the current install base. Just like it would if we were to just drop the SD channels completely.
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Where did you get this info? It is possible to get 2 HD channels on 1 OTA channel w/ the new VBR encoders. Several co's make them: Harmonic, & Harris come to mind first.
It seems to me that for Dish it all boils down to 'return on investment". When one of those millions of SD receivers or DVR's fails and needs replacing it will be replaced by a re-manufactured unit. My experience with re-manufactured units is not great to say the least. Two main things to consider IMO.
1. 100 % of new TV's purchased will be HD ( and the prices are really really low). So all those subs will want HD receivers. That will eliminate many existing SD receivers and DVR's' and SD content is dwindling rapidly.
2. The profits realized by Dish for HD receiver and DVR leasing is kind of lucrative. Especially with the big up charge for a second unit. Dish was the first to offer Free HD for Life which was a great marketing move. I think they like being first so "All HD All the Time" sounds like a nice new marketing slogan.
1. 100 % of new TV's purchased will be HD ( and the prices are really really low). So all those subs will want HD receivers. That will eliminate many existing SD receivers and DVR's' and SD content is dwindling rapidly.
2. The profits realized by Dish for HD receiver and DVR leasing is kind of lucrative. Especially with the big up charge for a second unit. Dish was the first to offer Free HD for Life which was a great marketing move. I think they like being first so "All HD All the Time" sounds like a nice new marketing slogan.
I think its reasonable to transmit all HD and down convert. Given the choice, I always watch the loft TV like that ( 4:3, old Sony ). I sometimes toggle the "format" button on the remote to watch either letter box or full screen. Works well. You don't have to get a new TV yet, but upgrading the intermediate infrastructure and recorded signal would be great.
I also agree that at some point, the Government should step in and encourage some sort of standard. All of this 4:3 stretched signal and upconverted junk gets on my nerves.
I also agree that at some point, the Government should step in and encourage some sort of standard. All of this 4:3 stretched signal and upconverted junk gets on my nerves.
