Can my BUD recieve Ku?

[shaggy_5420]

Hello, I am new to the forum here and this is only my second post, so please bear with me, and mods feel free to move this if there is a better area for it.

A few years ago a friend of mine had set me up with a BUD that looks to be in near perfect condition, the unit was fully functional at the time of removal. I have the polar mount and all the original cabling (very professional job on the install, everything was in PVC pipe and no problem to remove). I have only a few problems, and that is: 1. I don't even know how to measure this dish, and 2. I don't know what the dish is capable of.

To address question #1 I measured the dish from one rim to the opposite side (not following the shape of the dish, but keeping the tape tight straight across) and the dish measured 90". I know that there has got to be a correct way to measure this dish and identify it.

To address question #2 I know that the dish was only used for C band reception at the previous owners installation, but I would like to find out if it is capable of receiving Ku band as well (it only has a C band LNB on it at the moment). I read a very informative page about BUD installation and it touched on this discussion and had mentioned that you could tell if a metal mesh dish was C or C, C/Ku by the size of the mesh. The only thing is it didn't mention how you could tell the difference, only that you could.

Now if the dish is only capable of C band reception, I am ok with that as I was already getting my 75cm Channel Master (recycled primestar dish) ready for a motor. Any help would greatly be appreciated. I am happy to have a community of other satellite hobbyists around to help encourage and guide me through this.

Thanks in advance,
John

I included an attachment with a pic of the dish, it is the one on the right the one on the left had a rather large tree limb drop on it, and bent the edge in and I don't know if it can be repaired.

 

[dfergie]

Welcome to SatelliteGuys! Moved to C-Band... If a pencil can pass thru the mesh it won't be any good for Ku, If not you will need another feedhorn that has both Ku and C-Band LNB's on it.

 

[shaggy_5420]

Thank you for relocating the thread...C-band dish question...C-band forum...who'd of thunk it right. the mesh only has holes a couple of mm in diameter, so I guess it is time to start looking for C/Ku feed horns and LNBs

Thanks for the rapid reply as well dfergie. I only need to know how I can measure this dish so I know what I am working with before I go planting a big pole. I have a MAJOR issue though and that is the mounting location has my house right in between me and my southern view of the sky. Where I intend on mounting it, I have had DN and D$$ dishes mounted and I am able to get a clear view from 61.5 to 148 with the little dishes and an old DN reciever (you know how it says wrong sat, but says what sat it is) I would imagine that if I can get those with the pizza pans I should be able to see the arc with a BUD.
If I am wrong please let me know. Thanks in advance.
John

 

[Mr Tony]

I would imagine that if I can get those with the pizza pans I should be able to see the arc with a BUD.

maybe. Here is why

C-Band dishes are prime focus so you aim the dish at the legit angle. If there is something blocking the dish the signal won't work.

Most KU dishes and DBS dishes are offset. The signal comes around 22-26 degrees HIGHER than what the dish looks like. So the dish could be aimed at the house but the signal comes down at a better angle.

In the below pic (its an old pic but it serves its purpose) the C-Band dish is at 38 degrees. The KU dish (the far right one) is at 30 degrees. SInce the KU dish is offset it looks like the dish is aimed at about 10 degrees

 

[dfergie]

Your Welcome... Measure it at its widest point, as Iceberg says its a straight line of sight from the dish to the sat, look at the sun at different times of the day where you want to mount the dish, if you have unobstructed view of it at all times you are good to go. ( right now the sun is pretty much where the clarke belt is )

 

[shaggy_5420]

ICEBERG!!! Wow I have seen some of your posts and I gotta tell you, that I really admire your setup/s. Now that I know that I KNOW I will be able to get a good view of the arc, if I aim even 5-10 degrees higher I will have completely gotten over all the obstacles in between me and free tv.

I have ZERO problem topping trees around here in the worst case scenario, I can do this you see cause the neighbor's can't see... haha 23 acres around me all wooded But at least I get to play with putting this stuff in and together, I also get to put up an antenna tower for my ham projects. Depending on my luck with the FTA I may get into satellite tracking with the ham gear.

I still don't know how to measure the dish properly to find out what I have and what I can do with it.

 

[turbosat]

Just measure it across the front in a straight line, edge to edge. Looks like maybe 8' if the other one is a 10' , hard to guess from the picture.

 

[Anole]

is your cup half full?

Some close-up pictures of the front of the dish, the LNB, the rear, the mount, et al would get you some answers.
If you look very closely at the dish/mount, you might find a logo, or name-plate.
The brand and model of the LNB might help, too.

A close-up of just the mesh, with a pencil poked into it (gently) would answer a lot of questions.

Oh, and your 90 inches is 7.5 feet.
Sounds good.
The other one could be in the 9..10 feet range, but it's very hard to tell from the pix.
I'd say, drag the broken dish home, too. Especially if you have all that acreage .
If you don't use the mount , motor, or LNB today, you might in the future.
AND, with more pictures, we might even encourage you to fix up the big one.
"Bent" isn't necessarily terminal, for a BUD.
I'd say that 90% of a 10-foot dish, is a whole lot better than nothing! - :up

I think your cup runneth over.

 

[shaggy_5420]

I just snapped that pic before it got dark and I had to run to the grocery store. The 7.5 foot has a sticker on the dish in the dead center that says "Home Cable", and has a polar mount, and actuator arm. The larger is a no name brand no stickers of any sort, and has a gear driven motor with chains and the works. I will work on getting some pics together of the mounts, mesh and the damage to the 10'. I actually have an 8' wire mesh that was backed over by a concrete truck, and I have a fiberglass 10' dish that had the LNB arms ripped off of it when it flipped over in a storm. I don't think it would be safe for me to go home if I have another BUD.
Could anyone tell me the name of the installer compasses that have the angle finder in them as well? I think it would be to my advantage to do a site survey (or pay someone to come over and do one and teach me how to do one)

 

[AntAltMike]

Using these for Ku can be a pain in the butt for several reasons.

For one thing, the beamwidth will be extremely narrow and it may be difficult to track the arc as precisely as narrow beamwidth will require.

Another is that you will have to find a feedhorn that matches the f/D ratio of the dish. If you are interested in receiving DBS ku signals, those feedhorns are designed for dishes with f/D ratios of about .6, whereas the black dish in your picture might have an f/D ratio of .45 and the gray dish probably has an even lower f/D ratio than that. If the waveguide and scalar plate on the Ku feedhorn do not match the f/D ratio of the dish, you will miss a lot of the signal from the dish's perimeter.

It doesn't take much shape distortion for Ku performance to degrade. There was one sports bar I serviced with two mesh dishes with the same mesh. The 10 footer produced better C-band signals but worse Ku signals no matter how precisely I located the feedhorns. I attributed that to the slight dispersion of the reflected Ku signals, which have to hit a waveguide opening that is just 3/4" wide, whereas the C-band signals are reflected to a 3" opening.

 

[shaggy_5420]

Well after some serious (until 4 in the mornin') searching and reading I have decided that at the moment I will just use the Channel Master dish for Ku. The whole thing with the focal point adjusting the scalar ring...not to mention the cost of a C/Ku band LNB I believe that I will use this dish for C-band operation.

I also figured out the tool I was asking about is called a clinometer, and being as I cannot afford a nice sanduun one I will be getting a carpenters clinometer/angle finder at the local Wally World Mega Center tonight and setting it and a compass on a 2x4 and see if I have a possible mounting location. The only rules that the better half and I (mostly the first one mentioned) don't want any more holes in the roof.

I have attached more pics of the dish, the label that says the brand, the actuator arm, a pencil on the mesh, the lnb and feedhorn (Chapparal and California Amplifiers) and one half of the mount. I am hoping that it shouldn't need too terribly many adjustments for getting started, as the people whom I got it from live 5 miles south east of where I am.

If anyone is familiar with this dish or any

 

[gabshere]

a picture of the other dish & chain drive would be nice
it actually sounds like a horizon to horizon mount motor
those are very good and accurate mounts its the reason i'm mentioning this
either one you use or even both you will love c-band FTA
the only rule you will need if for the better half to hold the wallet
and should include the message below......

******WARNING*******this stuff is very addictive ******WARNING*******

 

[Anole]

Inclinometer

Everybody should have one.

Here is a recent discussion on them :
http://www.satelliteguys.us/fta-shack/104594-angle-meter-harbor-freight.html

Here is a picture of one over on the Sadoun web site (they sell a better model):
http://www.sadoun.com/Sat/Products/Accessories/Meters/Johnson.jpg

 

[zaxxon]

I replaced the feedhorn with a new Chaparral C/KU unit. I installed new LNB's both KU and C and have a perfect picture with both C and KU.

My dish is a Winegard ten foot mesh. I use a 4DTV receiver and buy programing through NPS.

 

[linuxman]

Hey there,

The Home Cable 7.5 foot dish is in reality a very well made Unimesh dish that was produced for Home Cable. I have one just like it in my warehouse. It should serve you well for both C-Band and Ku.

The big dish looks like a Winegard of some kind, and your description of the mount could be an AJAK H-H mount as George said above.

Take both dishes if possible. If that truly is an AJAK H-H mount, it would be worth grabbing the dish for that alone. Even if you can't fix up the dish.

Fred

 

[shaggy_5420]

Actually I already HAVE both of the dishes. I will get some pictures of the mount on the larger of the two dishes. I have two additional dishes as well a 9' fiberglass (going to be a fountain this spring, and I will make certain to get the pics of that for you guys) and the other had all the mes ripped out of it and I have already incorporated part of it into another project (non satellite project I am afraid).

Linuxman, you had mentioned that the HomeCable dish is good for C/Ku and I was curious how difficult it would be to change out the feedhorn / LNB on that guy or if I would just be better off using the 75cm elliptical Channel Master /P* dish on a motor.

Next question is: It has been years since I learned how to properly use a compass, and I have so far just used a signal meter and "eyeballing it" to get anything on my reciever. Could anyone direct me to an informational page/site/thread on how to properly conduct a site survey for a prime focus and offset dishes, using common poor folks tools (compass, and angle finder/clinometer)

Thanks again for all the replies guys

 

[linuxman]

Linuxman, you had mentioned that the HomeCable dish is good for C/Ku and I was curious how difficult it would be to change out the feedhorn / LNB on that guy or if I would just be better off using the 75cm elliptical Channel Master /P* dish on a motor.

You might try going for one of the voltage controlled C/Ku LNBFs. They sell for around $50.00. Some of the guys really like them.

I have always used the Co-Rotor II with C and Ku LNBs, but with it you need something to control the polarotor, with the voltaged controlled you don't.

I'll let someone else explain about how to use the compass and doing a site surveys. There are a lot of threads on that subject on this forum.

Do a search using compass, or survey, and see what you come up with.

Fred

 

[linuxman]

Here is a home made site survey tool. I use something similar to what is explained using an ordinary carpenters angle finder, and an inclinometer.

Here is an obstacle clearance calculator.

Don't be confused by the differences of off-set dishes and prime-focus dishes. The signal comes from the same direction. For instance if your True South Satellite is at 45 degrees, it is 45 degrees above the southern horizon whether on an off-set dish or prime focus. The only difference is the angle the dish receives it on. But when doing a site survey there is no difference.

That information should get you started.

Fred

 

[Anole]

This is a fine site for remembering the basics of BUD setup.
Footprints by Dish Size - Adjusting the Polar Mount for Prime Focus Antenna - C/Ku-Band Satellite Systems - Tuning, Tracking, Azimuth, Elevation, Declination Angles, F/D Ratio, Focal Distance, Inclinometer, LNB/Feedhorn Assembly, Actuator Assembly, C

 

[shaggy_5420]

Anole that is the site that I was on looking at the info on Cband (even saved it in my tool bar lol) I guess what I am really up against is the fact I haven't used my compass since like 4th or 5th grade (unless you count the one in my GPS lol)

And Linux man, I guess I never noticed that you are in MO I live around 60 miles west of STL.

I have so many projects going on at once and no time to do them ...GRRRR

I know that I want to get my KU stuff up and running first (lack of funds to install the BUD) and I have everything that I need to set up a stationary dish, (I am still wrorking on the mount for the P* dish to get a motor on it) but I think that it would be more rewarding to put up a motorized dish.